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Missing offensive play

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franklin

Well-Known Member
Hopefully someone can help me out with a name because I have no clue what this play is called. Either way it disappeared from the Jazz arsenal before Sloan left.

The center takes a pass free throw line high and Jazz run a ton of read based options to get either an easy back cut layup, middle key catch-and-shoot, low PF catch-and-score, or a good shot from either wing. You know the play I'm talking about where Ostertag looked like a stiff pass faking back and forth. It must have worked pretty well even with his no shot threat because Sloan ran it over and over and over. Collins must have run it pretty well too, and became quite the proficient shooter from that spot by the end of his career. Teams were dumb to do the Brewer sag when he had the ball there.

Does anyone have a clue why this play has been completely lost? Extra bonus points for the name, if any.
 
I know the play your talking about. (can't remember the name either)

The play requires your center to be able to pass the ball in traffic. Something Big Al does not seem capable of. Maybe this is why the play was scrapped.
 
I believe you're just explaining a beginning option of the 1-4 UCLA play.

Jazz run under Corbin, but it's not being run hard enough by the players, nor have the screens been set well or hard enough.
 
there's not a specific name for the play; it's just part of the same flex system the jazz are currently running. the difference is that they use it less because they're only focusing on a part of the offense because of the shortened training camp. instead they've been very low-post and pnr focused because that's what they had time to get to now. i'm sure we'll see more stuff in the high post, elbow, FT line extended as january continues and they get more practice time to continue expanding on the O.

that said, i'm not sure they have the personnel for the particular thing you're talking about. al jefferson is a horrible passer at his position and derrick's assist percentage is literally ZERO percent. maybe you have paul run the five on those sets.
 
I think it is part of the flex. It was lost when Al came.

https://coachingbetterbball.blogspot.com/2008/12/utah-jazz-flex-continuity-offense.html

I would like to see it again, I can imagine Kanter learning to knock down that 15-18 foot shot or passing out of the high post. But he might also be better on the low block for setting monster screens, and rebounding. Locke says Favors has shown some real good flashes of passing ability.

Also like to see some good old '4 low' with Favors on the block, atleast 5 times in the first quarter.
 
Thanks for the replies thus far.

First off, if Ostertag could do it then Jefferson can. Does this place have to blame Jefferson for everything?

Second, it didn't disappear completely. Francisco Elson ran it a bit last year. Being a veteran who understands is probably the reason.
 
Yeah, that is the UCLA offense. The Point passes to a wing and the center (at the free throw line) sets a screen for the point guard to run through. If the PG can he gets an easy layup. (Stockton did this a lot) Then the center steps out towards the 3pt line to get a pass from the wing... When they run it right with good screens it has so many options. Very simple play that reaps big payoffs when you set hard screens and fast cuts.
 
i'm not blaming jefferson -- i'm saying he's a poor passer and a poor decision maker. he is 5 or 10 times the low post scoring threat that ostertag ever dreamed of being, but ostertag understood the offense and knew how to read the coverage and make a decision from that spot. al can't even tell when he'll being cuadruple-teamed and three of his teammates are open.
 
From what I understand, with the limited time, TCorb has mainly focused on defense so far this year in training camp and practices.
 
true, along with a PORTION of the offense. they haven't gotten to everything yet, and they're going pretty slowly at installing the O because of all the young players and newer veterans.
 
theNBAnerd said:
true, along with a PORTION of the offense. they haven't gotten to everything yet, and they're going pretty slowly at installing the O because of all the young players and newer veterans.
Click to expand...

Jazz have used the interior cross screen play more often in the past couple of games, for Favors and Jefferson. I think Kanter might have gotten that play a couple times, as well. I believe it was 4-cross under Sloan. Corbin does it a bit differently, though, Not doing it off the UCLA cut, rather having the PG give up to the wing and then crash to the screen. Doesn't allow for the screening small to get the ball off an option read by the wing with the ball, though, and there seems to be no option read if the big's defender denies the ball. Seems like you could use the unused offensive players to set up a double screen for the PG to get the ball at the top of the key as a secondary option.
 
What you're talking about is something we're already running. It's basic flex stuff. Devin dumps the ball on the the high post to Al, Favors, or Sap and runs through. They then watch for the series of cross screens along the baseline. The key to them working is the entry passes (down low). We've seen basically ZERO of those passes despite guys having been open. A lot of this is because the guys passing are nervous to throw it into traffic. It's a precision pass.

I think they'll get better at it, but the other problem is we're often not setting up to do this until the 15 second mark (way too slow). As a consequence, when it doesn't work (and it rarely does), we get guys running Iso's or (most of the time) jumpshots. What I personally don't understand is why we don't have a more immediate option after the initial sequence doesn't work to run a PnR (or alternatively, just start off more sets with PnR).
 
theNBAnerd said:
i'm not blaming jefferson -- i'm saying he's a poor passer and a poor decision maker. he is 5 or 10 times the low post scoring threat that ostertag ever dreamed of being, but ostertag understood the offense and knew how to read the coverage and make a decision from that spot. al can't even tell when he'll being cuadruple-teamed and three of his teammates are open.
Click to expand...

If they ever are...

You seem to understand this stuff very well, alond with Jagasm, and surprisingly, DarkDuck. Why do you folks think they can't run it with the veterans they have, especially when Jazz did it with a first year here Elson? Shouldn't the two veteran point guards know precisely how to run it? Let alone CJ, Raja, and Millsap who have no excuse not to? Howard should understand the play by this point in his career as well, and since he's been the only guy in the Jazz' best five lineups I'd think he would be a good anchor for the flex.
 
franklin said:
If they ever are...

You seem to understand this stuff very well, alond with Jagasm, and surprisingly, DarkDuck. Why do you folks think they can't run it with the veterans they have, especially when Jazz did it with a first year here Elson? Shouldn't the two veteran point guards know precisely how to run it? Let alone CJ, Raja, and Millsap who have no excuse not to? Howard should understand the play by this point in his career as well, and since he's been the only guy in the Jazz' best five lineups I'd think he would be a good anchor for the flex.
Click to expand...

Those guys ARE running it. You can question the screens they're setting, or how effective their cuts are, but if you watch tonight you will see Hayward/CJ/Howard flash open in the paint. You'll also see a screen to free up the big. THAT's the pass the high post option has to hit on the initial reads.
 
billyshelby said:
Those guys ARE running it. You can question the screens they're setting, or how effective their cuts are, but if you watch tonight you will see Hayward/CJ/Howard flash open in the paint. You'll also see a screen to free up the big. THAT's the pass the high post option has to hit on the initial reads.
Click to expand...

correcto.
https://www.nba.com/jazz/video/2012/01/03/0021100080_mil_uta_recap.nba/index.html
skip to 0:24

can someone give a decent explanation for why Jefferson didn't pass it to Hayward with Jackson dogging it on defense?
 
NAOS said:
correcto.
https://www.nba.com/jazz/video/2012/01/03/0021100080_mil_uta_recap.nba/index.html
skip to 0:24
Click to expand...

Good catch there NAOS. That particularly play also emphasizes something that has been lacking. On that play, Al misses Hayward coming through (just too tentative, or he may have been caught looking for Raja down low). Either way, Devin is a little slow, but he comes over to run the PnR which keeps the offense moving. All too often, we strand the post passing option without that PnR.

FWIW, there was also a play in the last game (I think) where Al tried to go inside to a cutter under the basket and the pass got stolen. Those are the kinds of passes that make the big guys nervous and only experience will cure the disease.
 
billyshelby said:
Those guys ARE running it.
Click to expand...

Not now Selby. I'm talking to the three folks who understand the game.


You might want to understand what I wrote to Nerd before acting like such a bad *** and plucking the three letter word ARE out trying to pull some con that you know what you're talking about. Stay out of other peoples conversations TROLL.
 
NAOS said:
correcto.
https://www.nba.com/jazz/video/2012/01/03/0021100080_mil_uta_recap.nba/index.html
skip to 0:24

can someone give a decent explanation for why Jefferson didn't pass it to Hayward with Jackson dogging it on defense?
Click to expand...

You see how open Hayward is on that cut? And how the offense stagnates after that? So frustrating. But what do you do when you run the play and the big refuses to try and make a pass that isn't even that precision of a pass.

And that looks like the flex and not the 1-4 UCLA offense. You can get the big the ball at the top in either set, but the 1-4 UCLA is toward the wing a few sets.

The flex can get the bigs 16-20 foot jump shots at the elbow, too. Kanter will be told to start shooting that shot soon, I imagine.
 
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