Should be held to a standard that is no different. Some of its self proclaimed followers on the other hand...
Mormons and materialism.
- Thread starter Siro
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Should be held to a standard that is no different. Some of its self proclaimed followers on the other hand...
This is really none of my business and you may have stated this in another post that I missed, but I'm curious. You went to BYU and you aren't Mormon? Are you an athlete? What was that like? What's your story? Why would you do that?
Mr. McGibblets
Well-Known Member
https://www.providentliving.org/welfare/pdf/WelfareFactSheet.pdf
1985 - 2009 (so 25 years):
Humanitarian Aid in Cash: $327.6 Million
Humanitarian Aid in Material Assistance: $884.6 Million
Total: $1.13 Billion in 25 years.
Roughly $45.2 Million/year, but I bet it has increased as the years have gone on to account for inflation.
Canadian tithing funds given to BYU in 2010: 102 Million
https://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/ebci/haip...k%3Dlatter-day%26amp%3Bb%3Dtrue%26amp%3Bp%3D2
UK tithing funds (where it's a "hard" mission and not growing):
https://www.charity-commission.gov....steredCharityNumber=274605&SubsidiaryNumber=0
City Creek Spending from 2003 - 2012: $1.5 Billion.
It's about priorities. Find an old financial ward clerk in your ward and strike up a conversation and ask roughly how much in tithing your ward brings in. If you are in the US then I bet it's over half a million a year easy. In my local congregation (ward) a few years ago we had a fundraiser to raise funds to buy hymn books, paper, and pencils for other congregations in Africa. The African wards did not get enough supplies from church headquarters. Turning around and sending a few million out in humanitarian relief is hardly noteworthy.
Before you go mentioning all the other good the church does, I agree! However, remember, the canneries and storehouses rely on free labor or labor in exchange for food vouchers, mixed with old couples on missions who are paying their own way, and people from local wards guilted into attending. Not to mention you then have to turn around and buy the food that you just canned (at a great price, yes, but you are still having to pay for it after you put a few hours of labor in).
The church did disclose its funds and how they handled money up until the 1960s when they made a bunch of financial mistakes and built too many buildings, etc. Joseph Smith pretty much bankrupted it himself too. Being god's "one true [] church" does not inoculate it from stupid financial decisions. There's a reason nobody is building billion dollar malls right now besides us and someone in New Jersey.
I hope some of the super faithful don't take this as some anti-rant, but in my experience, if something comes off critical of the church then it's immediately labeled "anti" or "persecution." I don't mean it to come across that way, merely to offer a perspective that our "church" could do more.
I see nothing anti-mormon in that post at all. I agree that any church can make stupid financial decisions.
I went to the BYU because:
1) It's an excellent school.
2) It is very affordable.
3) My parents wanted me to go to a college around Richmond, VA (where they live). I wanted to go elsewhere. They were afraid of me moving to a large city on my own as a 17 year old, so we landed on Utah. They thought it was safe and small.
Makes a lot of sense. It's a great school for the tuition. Did you have a good experience?
Thanks for posting. I've heard that the City Creek project lessened the severity of the recession in Salt Lake City because it brought about $1million a week into Salt Lake's economy (not verifiable numbers.)
I was always impressed by the $1billion in charity just because the numbers so large, I guess when you realize 1 billion is 2.5% of 40* billion, it's not as large of a number. Still pretty impressive though.
*40 billion isn't he best number to look at. I just used it cause they said the church was worth that like 10 years ago...
I felt that I learned a lot. I never liked the atmosphere or the restrictions (like being prevented from taking a test because my hair covered part of my ear). I made very few real friends (most of whom were not active Mormons), just a number of acquaintances. For my graduate studies, I opted to go to the University of Utah. I thought the U was a better experience overall, but the quality of education is unquestionably higher at BYU.
jimmy eat jazz
Well-Known Member
For what it's worth, while the absolute value of LDS Church contributions on charity appears large, relative to its income/assets, it's actually pretty small. (I don't have the numbers here, it's something I looked up some time ago. I'm not inclined to go look it up again, so feel free to disregard.) Plus, the lion's share of it goes to members, not that this is necessarily bad, but it may be important to some.
One of my biggest issues with how the Church chooses to spend its resources is the grossly disproportionate amount it invests in the welfare of the Dead. I understand issues surrounding the Church's doctrine in this area, but with so much suffering and need among the living, this strikes me as a colossal misallocation of priorities.
Edit to add: I don't think Brigham Young would feel out of place in today's LDS Church. He certainly didn't live an aesthetic lifestyle and by all appearances, enjoyed a good amount of wealth and comfort.
jimmy eat jazz
Well-Known Member
When I was young, I used to fret about this. Now that I'm older, I don't care. I have nothing wrong with wealth, presuming it was earned honestly. The fact of the matter is, large religious organizations like the LDS Church needs lots of money to run its world-wide operations and programs. The Biblical image of poor itinerant preachers giving no thought about what to wear or eat is quaint but has little relevance to the actual world, or at least I think so.
I do think there's a line that can be crossed into inappropriately conspicuous and selfish consumption, but I'm hesitant to specify just where that line is in any general sense, although on a case by case basis I think it can cross the line. (If you ever saw that reality show on TV about the Sweet 16 parties, that's an example of crossing the line, I think.)
I would expect to see, however, that a wealth religious organization claiming the mantel of Jesus to use a good share of its wealth for charitable causes.
Keep in mind most of the assets are income *consuming*, not income producing. That is, they are things like church buildings and temples which require maintenance and don't generate income.
jimmy eat jazz
Well-Known Member
That's true. Again, I don't have the figures in front of me, I'm just going off of my memory. To me, a more relevant measure would be how the LDS church compares to other large religions, whether it's a percentage of assets, income, or whatever. If it were to live up to it's claim to carry the mantel of Jesus, I would expect it to compare favorably (not necessarily at the top). I can't say where it would land in this comparison.