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Move On From Hayward?

Handlogten's Heros said:
Could make a case sure, but I'm not sure it was obvious. The guy was snubbed from the AS game that year?

I just think it might be a bit rash to trade Hayward for #3... If someone bowls me over for the guy then sure. I'm less concerned that he's not a guy that is a true #1 option... whatever that means. I think position variance/flexibility, shooting, and balance may be more important in the future and he offers a lot of that. Iso-ball, dominant alpha scoring is becoming less and less effective imo. Curry is so amazing to me because he does everything within the normal flow of the offense. Never see him just decide to go and get his.

The amount of unpredictability of the GS offense is part of the reason it's so hard to stop. The clear out and give it to one guy the last two minutes of the game is so much easier to plan for... I'm not sure if that is what people mean by we need a true #1... I think that is what I am getting at.
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Fish thinks if we don't trade Hayward we are destined to have the same record forever since players never improve past 26 and our team will have the same injury problems because Hayward was there and caused it all.
 
King Cy said:
Fish thinks if we don't trade Hayward we are destined to have the same record forever since players never improve past 26 and our team will have the same injury problems because Hayward was there and caused it all.
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This
 
This conversation just goes in circles. The first question is simple - How good are we this year? I'd say 2nd round at best if we all stay healthy.


The 2nd question is simple - are we good enough to keep Hayward interested in staying? This depends on how we bail out of the playoffs. If we get trounced or we don't even make the playoffs, he might say screw it, opt out and leave. It also might depend on how much we give him. If he's only loyal because we pay him the most, then screw that.

So, it depends on how we all do. It depends on how the season ends. It depends on how much love we show him and vice versa. At the end of day, I freaking hate when a player has this much power. When it's Durant, you have to show your cards because he's a superstar. OKC couldn't trade him for fear of leaving. Hayward, however, is not that guy but we are treating him like he is. If he just walks, we miss a major opportunity to keep this rebuild going. We would have groomed him for 7 years for nothing.

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LoPo said:
Thinking Exum is going to be our alpha, all star dominant scorer is pretty ignorant foresight. He could be very good, but not the wing star every contender needs. As for money, yes Hayward will get it somewhere but we shouldn't give it. To take a look at the top 25 contracts in the league. Over half of those contracts are regretted by the teams. In other words, those teams would not give those guys that money today.

How would I spend that money? I would go after Fournier, Barnes, Beal, Batum and Evan Turner who would all cost a fraction of $25+. We would still have the money to keep our young guys who have to get paid in the lifetime of that horrible Hayward max deal.

But you are avoiding my points too - Hayward probably walks next summer of we don't make the 2nd round or we don't give him the absolute biggest longest max. Screw those propositions...

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If you knew the league you would know the teams of Fournier, Batum and Beal are high on their teams and are going to match. Barnes ? Turner ?? to replace Haywards skill set with either of those for the sake of penny pinching .. ouch I do agree he's not necessarily a stud alpha bring home the bacon #1 ... those are few and far between. Also i'm not talking about Exum being the dominant scorer, but the Jazz heirarchy sure are placing a lot of their chips on him being an all-court presence, as much for his smarts and net effect on the game as anything else. He clearly has the physical tools.

Is it a gamble expecting Exum to become that ? Yes Is it a gamble to pay Hayward big bucks and a gamble to expect him to stay ? Of course. But i like those odds and the already there physical length and athleticism the way the team has been built plus the intangibles with chemistry etc a lot more than another round of gambling with draft picks and waiting 3-4 years for that to develop.


One thing i think we can all agree on is that this season is make or break in sooooo many ways. It has to be a 47-50 win season with multiple player improving big time or else we're in trouble.
 
fishonjazz said:
Not sure what you are asking here but irvings career is going better than most players in the nba. All star most years. One of the best at his position. Going to finals.

I'm pretty sure he is happy with how his career is going. Probably wishes it were a little better and he could win a title.
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Dude my point is he's a prime time alpha one on one scorer, and defensively a liability. Didn't help them win coming down the 4th in the last game with it all on the line. At home. With the most dominant physical player on his team. Once they started going iso for the last quarter they were screwed. I'm not talking about his career (obviously) but what happens when all chips are on the line. That's why the warriors are so good, they stay unpredictable and the ball keeps moving. They also get a lot more offensive rebounds as a result of the plays they run than what the Cavs did in the fourth the other day.

Obviously i'm exaggerating to make my point, i just think alpha scorers aren't necessary what to put your hopes on.
 
DownUnder said:
Dude my point is he's a prime time alpha one on one scorer, and defensively a liability. Didn't help them win coming down the 4th in the last game with it all on the line. At home. With the most dominant physical player on his team. Once they started going iso for the last quarter they were screwed. I'm not talking about his career (obviously) but what happens when all chips are on the line. That's why the warriors are so good, they stay unpredictable and the ball keeps moving. They also get a lot more offensive rebounds as a result of the plays they run than what the Cavs did in the fourth the other day.

Obviously i'm exaggerating to make my point, i just think alpha scorers aren't necessary what to put your hopes on.
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I think tnt jazz would be much better with irving than Hayward. I would trade Hayward for irving in a heartbeat.

No way in hell the cavs would do that trade though.
 
fishonjazz said:
I think tnt jazz would be much better with irving than Hayward. I would trade Hayward for irving in a heartbeat.

No way in hell the cavs would do that trade though.
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Prob not But was Cleveland winning with Irving and a bunch of D League calibre talent before Bron came home ?
 
The only good thing about this thread is that on Tapatalk this thread's picture is the butt riding the bike.

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fishonjazz said:
Yes. He was averaging 23 points and 7 assists per game on 45% from three.
Had yet to appear in an all star game though.
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Can you find a source of someone who said that at the time? Hindsight is 20/20.

I doubt you'd find on Jazzfanz anyone who projected Milsap to be a multiple allstar or significant three point threat when he was playing for the Jazz.
 
silesian said:
Can you find a source of someone who said that at the time? Hindsight is 20/20.

I doubt you'd find on Jazzfanz anyone who projected Milsap to be a multiple allstar or significant three point threat when he was playing for the Jazz.
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Lol. HH asked if people thought he would be a #1 option on a championship team at that time.

Of course people wouldn't say that.... Championships are super hard to get so I wouldn't predict that for anyone In the league besides lebron. Hell kd isn't a #1 option on a championship team.

It was obvious though at that time that curry was a legit #1 option. Everyone knew that at that time. Dude was averaging 23 ppg on good efficiency. Shooting 45% from three and 90% from the line and getting good assist numbers.

I'm not saying we need to trade Hayward for a chance at a #1 option for a championship team.... That's way too ambitious. There are only a couple of those in the whole league.
 
DownUnder said:
Prob not But was Cleveland winning with Irving and a bunch of D League calibre talent before Bron came home ?
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I don't get your point. Do you think that I believe we should only trade Hayward for a guy that will be the best player on a championship team? That's way too ambitious. I don't expect Hayward to net us a player like lebron or curry. That's silly.

Why did you even bring up kyrie?

My whole point is that I believe we need a player better than Hayward.

I would love to get a guy as good as kyrie on the jazz.
 
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