Multiverse - Higgs boson - String - Anthropic Principle

[Stoked]

I lost my response...dang

Well, I DON'T have faith God doesn't exist. If you absolutely must insist that I'm a faith based person the most I'll concede is faith in scepticism. My stance here is not specific to the claim of the Christian God, the Muslim God or of any supernatural creator being, it's general scepticism. I don't accept anything to be true, nor do I give it any credibility, until it has made enough of a case for itself to warrant some attention. It is exactly how a criminal trial works. Someone is accused of a crime, it is up to those making the accusation to prove their case. Until they establish a legitimate case the defendant's innocence is assumed.

I maintain my virgin innocence in regard to claims of supernatural beings.

I am talking about a higher power and not any specific diety. To me it simply comes down to faith. You accept that there is or you don't. To me those that say they don't have a stance means they are open to the possibility that something is there. That is a measure of faith. Not a big, grand one but it is still there.

 

[Gameface]

I am talking about a higher power and not any specific diety. To me it simply comes down to faith. You accept that there is or you don't. To me those that say they don't have a stance means they are open to the possibility that something is there. That is a measure of faith. Not a big, grand one but it is still there.

But you're forcing an answer that I'm not in a position to give. By not participating in religion and not accepting as real something for which I have no reason to believe is real doesn't mean I'm actively taking a position, but religious people insist that that is in and of itself a position.

Look, in my Universe the world does not revolve around the question of Gods existence. I've said it several times now, but my position is that God does not exist. Same as invisible unicorns. But you're not forcing me to pick a side as far as the unicorns are concerned. Why? Why do we not have hundreds of threads dedicated to the possibility that invisible unicorns are among us?

The reason why is because any claim that they do exist lacks credibility, so we disregard the possibility. If disregarding the possibility that God exists means I have some sort of faith that's fine. I just wonder why it's so important for you to tell me that despite what I say I have faith.

I mean, I could just as easily take the other track and try to point out places where you may fail to live up to your faith and tell you over and over that you don;t actually have faith, but I feel like that would be disrespectful. You say you have faith, good enough for me.

 

[Stoked]

But you're forcing an answer that I'm not in a position to give. By not participating in religion and not accepting as real something for which I have no reason to believe is real doesn't mean I'm actively taking a position, but religious people insist that that is in and of itself a position.

Look, in my Universe the world does not revolve around the question of Gods existence. I've said it several times now, but my position is that God does not exist. Same as invisible unicorns. But you're not forcing me to pick a side as far as the unicorns are concerned. Why? Why do we not have hundreds of threads dedicated to the possibility that invisible unicorns are among us?

The reason why is because any claim that they do exist lacks credibility, so we disregard the possibility. If disregarding the possibility that God exists means I have some sort of faith that's fine. I just wonder why it's so important for you to tell me that despite what I say I have faith.

I mean, I could just as easily take the other track and try to point out places where you may fail to live up to your faith and tell you over and over that you don;t actually have faith, but I feel like that would be disrespectful. You say you have faith, good enough for me.

I think there is a miscommunication in how we are using faith here. I am not talking about acts or how we chose to live. I have faith that there is a higher power but I am not active in any religion.

Also there are levels of faith. It can be as simple as being open to the possibility that something is true.

For example, you take on faith my claim of faith. You cannot prove I am faithful. You just choose to accept it but it does not change anything in your life.

 

[The Midnight]

PKM... again... "what have you done?!?!?!"

 

[One Brow]

Can a man prove God is real? Yes or no.

Depends on how God is defined. Some are self-contradictory, some are so remote that they haven't been active since the Big Bang, etc.

So, are you acknowledging that a lack of belief in leprechauns is not "faith", as you define it?

 

[Stoked]

Depends on how God is defined. Some are self-contradictory, some are so remote that they haven't been active since the Big Bang, etc.

So, are you acknowledging that a lack of belief in leprechauns is not "faith", as you define it?

Are you acknowledging that a lack of belief in God is faith?

 

[One Brow]

Are you acknowledging that a lack of belief in God is faith?

I put not believing in God in the same category as not believing in leprechauns. If you want to call both of them "faith", fine. Since you offered the definition, I'm curious wheich aspect of the definition you feel that fits under.

 

[Stoked]

I put not believing in God in the same category as not believing in leprechauns. If you want to call both of them "faith", fine. Since you offered the definition, I'm curious wheich aspect of the definition you feel that fits under.

Belief in something you cannot prove is faith.

 

[One Brow]

Belief in something you cannot prove is faith.

Is not believing in leprechauns faith?

 

[moevillini]

is having faith in yourself the same thing as having faith in god? how is it the same or different? what about faith in mankind?

 

[Gameface]

Are you acknowledging that a lack of belief in God is faith?

Honestly I think the thing here is that to you (I'm making an assumption, I don't know this and it's very possible I'm wrong. Just trying to understand where you're coming from and I honestly don't really understand) and to the people close to you the existence of God is just a given fact of life. For most of us God exists always because we are taught about his existence before we can even conceptualize what he is and the extraordinary nature of the claim that he is real.

The stuff about leprechauns and unicorns isn't meant as an insult. We're trying to help you see it from our perspective. For myself God is not a given. I'm a second generation atheist so I have basically never believed. I never "lost faith" or got angry with a church and left, or became overwhelmed with doubt. Being an atheist was never a struggle I went through with difficult consequences associated with deciding I was an atheist. So for me, to be aggressively told that God does exist and that my denial of his existence is a sort of faith in itself, well... I'm taken aback. At that point to me I do ask the question if you have faith that unicorns don't exist or if you take the time to take a position on the billions of things that as far as we know don't exist.

And the thing about that is, I acknowledge that of the billions of things we could imagine but that we have no evidence of that specific thing existing, some of it is going to end up actually existing. There's a whole big Universe out there that we know very little about. But saying that it's possible that some of our wildest ideas will end up being true doesn't make me an agnostic in regard to the possibility of each and every thing that could be. I don't harbor some hidden thought that maybe unicorns do exist and that I shouldn't be so brash and arrogant as to just discount the possibility. I just say to myself, "There is no reason to give the possibility of unicorn's existence any special consideration or to declare that I just don't know for sure if unicorns exist or not." And I go on about my day, not particularly worried that my "faith" that unicorns don't exist will be shattered. To me the existence or non existence of unicorns is a non-issue. There's no evidence that they exist. They don't play a role in my life. To spend an undue amount of time trying to figure unicorns out and searching in my heart to feel if they're real seems pretty silly. I would never do that and no one else would ever implore me to do that. Only because God plays such a large role in you life and the life of those close to you do you see some small tragedy in my lack of faith. And that's what it is, a lack of faith.

 

[Stoked]

Is not believing in leprechauns faith?

Can it be proven that they are not real?