What's new

My faith in Exum has been broken

He was dominant defensively and he shot 48%... wasn't handed any playing time so only played in 40 games. You could see real flashes and while he wasn't perfect... my only concern with him was durability because of his frame... can't speak for others but you could tell that he'd be a good NBA player if healthy. Good rebounder good shot blocker... his awkwardness was a bit more acceptable because he's a freak of nature physically. He still looks awkward as hell doing some things because of his size.

I see no real comparison here... like at all.

There is a good reason Gobert was sent to the D-League and it wasnt because of Corbin not wanting to play him. He was terrible at times as a 21 year old.

He was terrible offensively and a good defender. Similar to Exum. There have plenty of stats that are the same for them at age 21. Rudy had a worse +/- box score, turned the ball over more despite touching the ball less, Exum has a better offensive and Defensive rating. Per 36 they scored the same amount. Although Rudy did obviously rebound better Exum has more assits. Gobert struggled to stay in game because of all the fouls he got which was often why he didnt get more minutes similar to Exum this year. Their TS% is about the same. Rudy couldnt make a FT to save his life back then. Many other advanced stats show them close or a slight edge to Exum.

Rudy struggled more as a 21 year old than Exum has so far this year coming off a major injury. I know people think it was because of Corbin he didnt play more but he was really raw and struggled. He couldnt stop fouling, he was pretty much useless on offense and turned the ball over a lot, like 24% of the time. Advanced stats show Exum as a better defender but I think that has more to do with the team than the individual. Exum was an elite defender pre injury for an 18 year old and will get back to that. He has already greatly improved defensively this season as time goes on.

At 21 Exum and Gobert were both Raw, long for their positions, quick for their positions, lacked meaningful playing time, showed flashes of greatness, got lost at times on the court, foreign players from different systems, defensive first players with flaws that can be fixed and tools to be great. Rudy has taken a great upswing and hopefully Exum can but at the very least there is the potential for that.
 
You see him on the outer in huddles when he use to be the closest to Snyder. I really feel exum is not enjoying his time in Utah, like he once did. As much as i want Exum to be the future leader for the Jazz and be successful as a player, i don't think he can make the leaps necessary under Snyder, and with the win now position the team is in.

Sent from my SM-N920I using JazzFanz mobile app
I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that despite Exum playing poorly, the Jazz are having their best start to a season in years. Remember back to when he was drafted and was asked how he would judge whether his rookie season was a success or not, and Exum replied with something along the lines of "I'm not too concerned with my personal stats, as long as I'm helping the team get more wins than last year then that will be a success". In his rookie season he didn't do much personally, but it was clear that Exum being on the floor was having a positive impact on the team, and the Jazz' post all star break run with him starting proved that he was positively affecting the team in the W column. Obviously Gobert was the other big change and he had a much larger impact than Exum did, but Exum was still playing a key role in the starting 5 defending the opposing teams PG, and occasionally their best perimeter threat period.

Before the DNP when he was starting, he was trying to prove that he could positive affect the team on the offensive end as well, but in the process he forgot to stop playing defense. Snyder chewed him out publicly over it, gave him a DNP, and ever since then Exum has completely closed off his offensive game while trying to prove that he can still guard at an elite level defensively - something which he hasn't really done at all. All while his backup PG is playing more minutes than he is and playing crunch time minutes. So he's basically a negative on offense since opposing guards just sag off him, his defense is average/above average at best so he's not having the same impact he had two seasons ago there, and it's obvious just watching the Jazz play that his teammates don't trust him to handle the ball or shoot the three, which results in what we're currently seeing with Exum bringing the ball up, handing it off, and then going to a corner 3pt spot with maybe a downscreen or something along the way. Then players like Hayward/Hood/etc will make a play from the wings, and despite whoever's guarding Exum coming over to help, these players refuse to kick out to Exum because he have zero faith in his ability to do anything offensively. It's pretty well deserved to be honest as Exum hasn't proven to be able to do much with the ball, but it still doesn't help him in terms of development that his teammates are effectively freezing him out of the offense. If Exum tries to do something with the ball at the beginning of the shot clock and makes a bad play, he gets yanked pretty quickly by Snyder, so he's really stuck in a hard place and isn't much of a fit with the Jazz until he can prove he can defend at an elite level again.(edit - it's worth noting that Mack has a little bit more freedom when bringing the ball up to run a PnR at the beginning of the shot clock to create some offense and gets a bit of leeway if he makes a bad play out of it, which Exum definitely would have noticed).

Exum knowing that he isn't a fit with this current Jazz squad as it currently stands yet they're doing better than they ever have with him on the bench is the biggest thing crushing his confidence right now imo. Even just his comments earlier in the year where he said something like "the bench is no place for a player to be" reinforce this suspicion, despite that being about his injury last season.

He had plenty of confidence in preseason, was surpassing our expectations, so something happened along the way. Snyder is a tough coach and I think Exum is pressing too much to please him, he needs to be himself not try and be the player Snyder or the media envisions him as. To me that's a more Ricky Rubio type player who probably isn't going to be an all star but will definitely help you win games.
See to me, if he tries to be the player that Snyder wants him to be then he'll be more likely to end up as a Rubio type of player who runs the offense, plays defense, and takes the open shot when he has to, rather than the player Exum wants to be. I think Exum wants to be more than that, and he still has all the tools to be the kind of player he wants to be post ACL tear as his athleticism still seems to be all there, but I think that preseason and pre-dog house Exum gave everyone a look at the player he wants to be. He wants to be a guy who handles the ball, runs a lot of PnR, tries to get to the paint and make plays for himself or others there, runs a fast pace offense and be a guy who you can give the ball to make a play if the offense bogs down. His rookie season he didn't show much of that as he was just trying to learn the game, stay healthy, and try not to hurt the team on either end of the floor. I think post ACL tear he wanted to prove that he could do the things that were on his predraft scouting report, as that is the Exum that I was used to seeing prior to entering the NBA, and in the process he was going to make a bunch of mistakes as he got back to playing against elite atheltes who are just as big and fast as he is. Except now he doesn't have the freedom to do that as the Jazz want to win now (and rightfully so), and Exum getting called out by Snyder for trying to do too much and forgetting his job really crushed his confidence, as he's much more timid and worried about hurting the team again with real tangible consequences now in place like getting pulled at any stage whenever he starts to hurt the team.

So I'm not too sure what to make of it, as on one hand I think Exum has all the tools to be a guy who can be a #1/2/3 option offensively and be dynamic with the ball, but at the same time I know that the Jazz don't want him to try and be that guy mid game as they know he's got a steep learning curve and they're trying to win now. The selfish part of me that just wants to see Exum at his best wants him to get traded to a rebuilding team which has time to let Exum learn through his mistakes, as that will let him be the best sidekick to Simmons in the 2020 Tokyo Olympics to have a crack at taking down Team USA, but there's also a part of me that knows that it's not his role on this Jazz team and he needs to learn how to adapt to still impact the game positively instead of taking the woe is me kind of attitude and distancing himself from the rest of the Jazz like SoundWave alluded to.

He's still so young and the season still has a long way to go so who knows, we could all be looking back at this thread in March and wondering why we were ever worried about him. But as it is there's a conflict between what Snyder wants him to do (Rubio-esque kind of player) and what Exum wants to be (Tony Parker-esque kind of player)
 
Good post sandman. I think players rarely end up in the best case scenario for themselves. As selfish fans we want them to conform to our system and even excel when its not within the context of their skill set. I wish the best for him but really hope we find a way to incorporate him, nurture him and help him feel like an important cog in our wheel until he reaches his potential.
 
See to me, if he tries to be the player that Snyder wants him to be then he'll be more likely to end up as a Rubio type of player who runs the offense, plays defense, and takes the open shot when he has to, rather than the player Exum wants to be. I think Exum wants to be more than that, and he still has all the tools to be the kind of player he wants to be post ACL tear as his athleticism still seems to be all there, but I think that preseason and pre-dog house Exum gave everyone a look at the player he wants to be. He wants to be a guy who handles the ball, runs a lot of PnR, tries to get to the paint and make plays for himself or others there, runs a fast pace offense and be a guy who you can give the ball to make a play if the offense bogs down. His rookie season he didn't show much of that as he was just trying to learn the game, stay healthy, and try not to hurt the team on either end of the floor. I think post ACL tear he wanted to prove that he could do the things that were on his predraft scouting report, as that is the Exum that I was used to seeing prior to entering the NBA, and in the process he was going to make a bunch of mistakes as he got back to playing against elite atheltes who are just as big and fast as he is. Except now he doesn't have the freedom to do that as the Jazz want to win now (and rightfully so), and Exum getting called out by Snyder for trying to do too much and forgetting his job really crushed his confidence, as he's much more timid and worried about hurting the team again with real tangible consequences now in place like getting pulled at any stage whenever he starts to hurt the team.

So I'm not too sure what to make of it, as on one hand I think Exum has all the tools to be a guy who can be a #1/2/3 option offensively and be dynamic with the ball, but at the same time I know that the Jazz don't want him to try and be that guy mid game as they know he's got a steep learning curve and they're trying to win now. The selfish part of me that just wants to see Exum at his best wants him to get traded to a rebuilding team which has time to let Exum learn through his mistakes, as that will let him be the best sidekick to Simmons in the 2020 Tokyo Olympics to have a crack at taking down Team USA, but there's also a part of me that knows that it's not his role on this Jazz team and he needs to learn how to adapt to still impact the game positively instead of taking the woe is me kind of attitude and distancing himself from the rest of the Jazz like SoundWave alluded to.

He's still so young and the season still has a long way to go so who knows, we could all be looking back at this thread in March and wondering why we were ever worried about him. But as it is there's a conflict between what Snyder wants him to do (Rubio-esque kind of player) and what Exum wants to be (Tony Parker-esque kind of player)

This simply isn't true. Snyder has said he wants Dante to be more aggressive several times in conferences. He would never yell at Dante for a drive where he didn't finish.
Dante is simply unsure of himself on drives in the NBA, he is not a leaper so has a hard time finishing over the trees. I agree Utah may not be the best team for him at this point,
as they are close to full fledged win now mode and can't sacrifice 20 minutes a game for player development.
 
i honestly haven't read anything in this thread, but i just wanted to wish you all a merry christmas.

92f7466d12e490ea852f0b32f9b751d0.jpg


my younger brother and i both got jazz shirts and we were super excited. i'll still root for exum no matter where he ends up. hope your days are filled with cheer. merry christmas jazzfanz ☺


Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz
 
I tend to disagree with Sandman about Dante. I think Dante's lack of confidence is all on him. I don't know how many times I've seen him get into the paint and be open and not take the shot, but pass it off to Boris or Gordon with the shot clock down. This is very frustrating. I think this is why Quin is pissed at him. One thing you can say about Mack is that he isn't afraid to take the shot and he has made some clutch shots as a result, something Dante has not done. So far as defense, a lot of what I see is that he is losing focus because he is down on himself. Furthermore, as one poster said, he does need to get stronger so he isn't pushed out of the way so easily.

In the comparison with Gobert -- the fire is the difference. Dante needs someone to light a fire under his butt and as Jerry would say, stop feeling sorry for yourself and play some ball.
 
i honestly haven't read anything in this thread, but i just wanted to wish you all a merry christmas.

92f7466d12e490ea852f0b32f9b751d0.jpg


my younger brother and i both got jazz shirts and we were super excited. i'll still root for exum no matter where he ends up. hope your days are filled with cheer. merry christmas jazzfanz ☺


Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz

Your younger brother looks like a chick.
 
Your younger brother looks like a chick.

Maybe Supfellas is the older sister -- note her username, Supfellas. Sounds to me like it could be a gal. And note, she's the one wearing the Exum shirt, and says she will always root for him. Case Closed. Right, Sup?

Come to think of it, all you sexist guys on Jazzfanz, you think Sup passes the behind test? I'll give her a thumbs up.:eek:
 
Maybe Supfellas is the older sister -- note her username, Supfellas. Sounds to me like it could be a gal. And note, she's the one wearing the Exum shirt, and says she will always root for him. Case Closed. Right, Sup?

Come to think of it, all you sexist guys on Jazzfanz, you think Sup passes the behind test? I'll give her a thumbs up.:eek:

Supfellas is clearly the girl. Hack is just a stupid turd.

Oh, and Merry Christmas.
 
Maybe Supfellas is the older sister -- note her username, Supfellas. Sounds to me like it could be a gal. And note, she's the one wearing the Exum shirt, and says she will always root for him. Case Closed. Right, Sup?

Come to think of it, all you sexist guys on Jazzfanz, you think Sup passes the behind test? I'll give her a thumbs up.:eek:

yep, you got it exactly right.


Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz
 
Last edited:
Maybe Supfellas is the older sister -- note her username, Supfellas. Sounds to me like it could be a gal. And note, she's the one wearing the Exum shirt, and says she will always root for him. Case Closed. Right, Sup?

Come to think of it, all you sexist guys on Jazzfanz, you think Sup passes the behind test? I'll give her a thumbs up.:eek:

Man you and Hack just had to make it weird.

Sent from my A0001 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
Maybe Supfellas is the older sister -- note her username, Supfellas. Sounds to me like it could be a gal. And note, she's the one wearing the Exum shirt, and says she will always root for him. Case Closed. Right, Sup?

Come to think of it, all you sexist guys on Jazzfanz, you think Sup passes the behind test? I'll give her a thumbs up.:eek:

Supfellas is clearly the girl. Hack is just a stupid turd.

Oh, and Merry Christmas.

Man you and Hack just had to make it weird.

Sent from my A0001 using JazzFanz mobile app

Lol

You guys are such clowns. Of course I put it together. It was joke. Pretty funny tbh.
 
Do untalented players usually get picked #1 overall?

Not usually. Reference Cavalier's scouting skills & the pool of "talent" in the 2013 draft class, and the answer becomes clearer. 2013 draft had most talent at 15 and 27.
 
In the long run it could be beneficial for Utah if Exum's a late-bloomer in the league and that allows for them to get a nice discount on re-signing him. There's obviously a long recent history of players improving for many years consecutively.
 
In the long run it could be beneficial for Utah if Exum's a late-bloomer in the league and that allows for them to get a nice discount on re-signing him. There's obviously a long recent history of players improving for many years consecutively.

Completely agree. Unless some team throws him a ridiculous offer next year.
 
Not usually. Reference Cavalier's scouting skills & the pool of "talent" in the 2013 draft class, and the answer becomes clearer. 2013 draft had most talent at 15 and 27.
I hate thinking about that 2013 Draft (except the part where we picked Gobert). Instead of trading for Trey Burke, we could've kept our #14 pick to select Antetekoumpo. He would be the best player on the team and we wouldn't be worrying if Hayward leaves or stays right now...
 
I hate thinking about that 2013 Draft (except the part where we picked Gobert). Instead of trading for Trey Burke, we could've kept our #14 pick to select Antetekoumpo. He would be the best player on the team and we wouldn't be worrying if Hayward leaves or stays right now...

Or used the #9 pick on mccollum like i wanted them to do at the time.
 
You're right dude. This forum believed for years that Tomic was ever going to come over or that Kanter was going to be a beast. Look how that turned out LOL

Enes is mentally disabled and Tomic is way too skinny to match up with iron solid guys in the nba. I wouldnt put Exum on the same page with those guys, hopefully he will become something in years to come.


Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz
 
Top