My hot take on what I'd do in the off-season.


LoPo

Well-Known Member
The Conley haters are ****ing morons lmao
He's overpaid. We won more games without him and than with him. He got white hot in his first game back in this series. From there, he did fine on offense but was not the asset we hoped for on defense. His inability to hit shots or guard anybody good took it's toll last night.

He's still a valuable player, but not as much for us. Donovan needs the ball in his hands. Donovan needs to guard the other team's worst wing not 2nd worst.

I don't think these people are Conley haters. I think they are Conley realists.
 

jom2003

Well-Known Member
People are being too soft on DL, Snyder, and the current roster composition.
The Jazz just blew a 3-1 lead... let me repeat that they just blew a 3-1 lead. That's unacceptable and embarrassing on all accounts. Any equivalent failure / choke job in normal workplace settings would cause heads to be rolled. But for the Jazz? Par as course, move along. There needs to be uproar form local fans, otherwise the millers won't give a **** because fans will continue to support this mediocre vision.
It's more on DL than it is on Quin. The guy tried to bench Conley but was specifically told by DL that benching him is not an option. He got the best out of this current roster and I doubt any coach could have done any better than forcing a third seed Nuggets team to a G7 shorthanded, with a bunch of players who either come freshly out of the G league or are 1 to 2 year away from retirement.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
It's more on DL than it is on Quin. The guy tried to bench Conley but was specifically told by DL that benching him is not an option. He got the best out of this current roster and I doubt any coach could have done any better than forcing a third seed Nuggets team to a G7 shorthanded, with a bunch of players who either come freshly out of the G league or are 1 to 2 year away from retirement.
Quin has been okay... so has DL. I do think the moment referenced was tough. I also think Quin gets a lot of credit for being some mad scientist and honestly he doesn't try enough stuff. The defense works when Rudy anchors it, but no one else can execute the scheme... so why don't you have a couple. Try some switching stuff... try some different personnel (he wasn't working with a full deck I know).

The fact that he sits on his challenges and doesn't ask for reviews of hostile acts in key moments is weird. Rudy gets hit in the face no call... ask for a review of a hostile act... it likely isn't deemed as such but the ref sees he clearly ****ed up a call and maybe he gives you the benefit of the doubt on the next one. Make up calls exist... these guys are human. Not getting the challenge in on the Ingles charge was awful... only saves a point but its still a point. It was in the 4th quarter.. the **** you waiting for Quin.

He might be awesome at some of the complex stuff but some of the basic **** ups leave me scratching my head sometimes.
 

jom2003

Well-Known Member
Quin has been okay... so has DL. I do think the moment referenced was tough. I also think Quin gets a lot of credit for being some mad scientist and honestly he doesn't try enough stuff. The defense works when Rudy anchors it, but no one else can execute the scheme... so why don't you have a couple. Try some switching stuff... try some different personnel (he wasn't working with a full deck I know).

The fact that he sits on his challenges and doesn't ask for reviews of hostile acts in key moments is weird. Rudy gets hit in the face no call... ask for a review of a hostile act... it likely isn't deemed as such but the ref sees he clearly ****ed up a call and maybe he gives you the benefit of the doubt on the next one. Make up calls exist... these guys are human. Not getting the challenge in on the Ingles charge was awful... only saves a point but its still a point. It was in the 4th quarter.. the **** you waiting for Quin.

He might be awesome at some of the complex stuff but some of the basic **** ups leave me scratching my head sometimes.
DL is anything but OK. he doesn't even understand the basic fundamentals on how to properly build a team.

To make a team actually a team, everyone needs to play a certain role. and that role cannot be the same. We have too many guys currently playing the same role that is scoring, but not enough guys to play the role of energy and muscle. Even lottery teams like the Suns understand this...Let Booker handle the scoring and everyone else carry the load on rebounding, defense, hustle, etc.

But for us, everyone just want a touch on the ball so he can dribble and then shoot, your turn my turn.

you simply don't win games that way.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
DL is anything but OK. he doesn't even understand the basic fundamentals on how to properly build a team.

To make a team actually a team, everyone needs to play a certain role. and that role cannot be the same. We have too many guys currently playing the same role that is scoring, but not enough guys to play the role of energy and muscle. Even lottery teams like the Suns understand this...Let Booker handle the scoring and everyone else carry the load on rebounding, defense, hustle, etc.

But for us, everyone just want a touch on the ball so he can dribble and then shoot, your turn my turn.

you simply don't win games that way.
Well he drafted DM and Rudy (kind of on the latter). He's found some diamonds... He's had some solid trades. He's also had some turd sandwiches but most of them made some sense at the time. We could do much worse. He's fine but he's not innovative or the best in the biz.
 

jom2003

Well-Known Member
Well he drafted DM and Rudy (kind of on the latter). He's found some diamonds... He's had some solid trades. He's also had some turd sandwiches but most of them made some sense at the time. We could do much worse. He's fine but he's not innovative or the best in the biz.
DL zero summed on these two deals. In the same draft he traded up for Trey Burke and gave up a pick(that turned into Wiz starting center Thomas Bryant) to get Tony Bradley. Both were horrendous deals. That's why I've always been saying that DL's track record as a GM would've ranked amongst worst in the league had he not gotten some Nuggets help.
 

NUMBERICA

Well-Known Member
Someone that knows more than me about the cap and draft should tell us their thoughts about the idea of trading Gobert straight up to the Wolves for the #1 pick.

I think there's enough there to maybe think about it. But maybe I'm a big idiot. Well, I'm definitely a big idiot.
 

jom2003

Well-Known Member
Well he drafted DM and Rudy (kind of on the latter). He's found some diamonds... He's had some solid trades. He's also had some turd sandwiches but most of them made some sense at the time. We could do much worse. He's fine but he's not innovative or the best in the biz.
and even though DL found the diamonds in DM and Rudy, just what exactly had he done with these two diamonds?

by taking the ball out of Donovan's hand? or by asking Rudy to carry our entire defensive scheme on his shoulder all by himself?

Wouldn't blame them if they want out because this season serves as the perfect indictment of how to mistreat your franchise players.
 

green

Well-Known Member
Gobert for #2 and Wiggins.
I thought about this. What about Gobert for Green and #2?

Conley/Ball
Mitchell
Brog/Joe
Green
Favors

I actually don't hate that lineup.

Conley/Ball
Mitchell
Wiggins/Brog/Joe
Favors

That's a more positionless team...you could do really well or it could go off the rails fast....I dunno.
 

green

Well-Known Member
I think the DL/Snyder dynamic is an odd one, even if they don't. What I mean by that is DL is definitely the 401k/index fund guy who wants to be slow and steady, put the money in without thinking about it, trust the strategy, then look at long-term gains. QS is a day trader, but he comes in the skin of appearing as a long-term-investment guy. His gains and losses are all over the place, but when mistaken for a long-term strategy, many are reassured to just trust the long-term vision. Inevitably, there will be a few days where the runs are huge, and the gentle reminder is, "see, we told you to be patient," but just as those few days of runs are high, there can be a couple days that sink any gains. But those highs definitely feel good, but unless the timing for when to get in and out of the market is perfect, the decisions typically aren't going to coincide with the best strategy.

We need to stop treating it like the dichotomy. It's cool that we want to keep pushing the sex machine stuff, but ultimately the best preparation for going deep into the post-season is to just get out there as early as possible and win games. That's it. Focus on the here and now and stop trying to think 25 moves ahead. We kept hearing that Quin costing us games with running the iso-ball was getting us ready for the playoffs, and that the regular season games didn't matter as much because he was hatching some genius schemes.

The post-season just came and went.

He's a good coach. But perhaps we could use more of the passionate Quin and less of the sex machine Quin.
I think both are solid, but neither are as good as we like to think they are. Take the Conley trade, for example. Why was this not done a year earlier? How different do Conley and Mitchell get along together if they team up when Conley is THE star and Mitchell is still up and coming, instead of trying to put two stars who dominate the ball together?

I think another thing is my common complaint of DL...he thinks he is so smart and tries to out smart everyone. And the Millers and their loyalty to players (although this is a double edged sword. Their loyalty gives a ton to the team but hurts the team with a Joe Ingles Contract). Why were Ingles and O'Neal given such big deals when both are very replaceable players? They were literally found on the trash heap and have turned into...very average, replaceable players, yet we are giving almost 20 million a year to them. Why not have that 20 million for a legit borderline all star and go find two more borderline NBA players willing to play their role for league minimums?
 

campaignist

Well-Known Member
Someone that knows more than me about the cap and draft should tell us their thoughts about the idea of trading Gobert straight up to the Wolves for the #1 pick.

I think there's enough there to maybe think about it. But maybe I'm a big idiot. Well, I'm definitely a big idiot.
noooope. A) the Wolves have towns and he's a legit 5. rudy would be a terrible fit. b) please dear god if they trade rudy, trade him east. im so sick of helping western rivals and how competitive it is
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
Someone that knows more than me about the cap and draft should tell us their thoughts about the idea of trading Gobert straight up to the Wolves for the #1 pick.

I think there's enough there to maybe think about it. But maybe I'm a big idiot. Well, I'm definitely a big idiot.
Wolves can't do it... this draft is *** at the top... I honestly would rather trade for the guy I wanted after he's picked... the 1st pick gets paid more than he's worth this year imo.

I'm not fully on the trade Rudy train... if we did I'd target young bigs, a good wing, and some picks in future drafts that have limited or no protection. Chicago for Carter Jr, OP Jr., and their pick next year unprotected... some nonsense like that.
 

green

Well-Known Member
Thats a good way to put it. We need some flexibility. Good shooting and playmaking wings give you that... guys who can't shoot or create will remove some of that.

If you can find a way to keep Rudy around the basket and get more out of your perimeter guys through getting steals or pressuring up on shooters then great. Every year we seem to get ourselves in the same matchup issue where "these guys can get Rudy is space" its fine and he functions okay there but it takes away an advantage we kinda bank on.

I would probably negotiate really hard if I was DL and move on if we couldn't agree... realizing we might lose more games next year but have a better shot in the playoffs or a better future outlook - depends on what's out there for Rudy in trade. We don't negotiate hard... we care more about the players feelings... so we likely max him out and head down the path of mediocrity.
I think the biggest problem with Rudy is the problem you have with AK. Elite talents on one end of the floor...the problem is, chicks dig players who score the basketball. You make All Star games by scoring. You get commercials because you score. Rudy wants to score.

Like AK, are you going to give Gobert the money he wants knowing that 1)it's a player's league and if he wants to score, you have to find a way to let him score and 2) If he doesn't score, his effort goes way down and suddenly he's not great on either end of the floor and you have 1/3 of your payroll wrapped up in that.
 

David Hume

Well-Known Member
Imagine a Jazz team with Mitchell and Embiid. Imagine a Sixers team with Simmons and Gobert. Such a trade would likely never happen, the Sixers would be worse shooters than they are now, but both teams need to improve, so even crazy sounding ideas at least have to be mulled over. We won big by trading Exum for Clarkson, and we won big by trading bits and pieces to Denver for Mitchell and Gobert, so a creative trade doesn’t sound like the worst idea to me.
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
I think the Nets are an interesting trade partner for Gobert. They are an impatient franchise with a lot on the line. Gobert fits next to Kyrie and KD pretty well. Maybe they would overpay for Gobert since their window is right now. I'd be interested in...

LaVert ($16.2)
Dinwiddie ($11.4)
Prince ($14)
Allen ($3.9)
Musa ($2)
#19

Gobert + Ed Davis for some combination of the above? Maybe even get them to throw in some way down the future 1st round pick with light protections?
 

NUMBERICA

Well-Known Member
I'm not gung-ho on trading Gobert, by the way. I just think that there's enough reasons at this point (upcoming contract expiration/reup/supermax deal contrasted with that he's not been terrific in the playoffs, his limitations as a player, and the relationship with Donovan) to have it on the table.
 

green

Well-Known Member
I'm not gung-ho on trading Gobert, by the way. I just think that there's enough reasons at this point (upcoming contract expiration/reup/supermax deal contrasted with that he's not been terrific in the playoffs, his limitations as a player, and the relationship with Donovan) to have it on the table.
I like Gobert as a player. But I worry about his limitations on offense, his big contract and does his effort falter if he doesn't get a lot of touches on offense? If I have to choose between Mitchell and Gobert, it's an easy decision and it's not Gobert.
 

green

Well-Known Member
Every year, there is a Gobert that pops up and defends like crazy. This year Whiteside had a PER of 25, 15 pts, 13 rebs, 3 blocks. Jokic was 25 PER, 20 pts, 9 rebs and 0.5 blocks. Mitchell Robinson was 10 points, 7 rebs and 2 blocks (23 mins/gm) with a PER of 23. Montrezl Harrell was 23 PER, 19 pts, 7 rebs and 1 block with LAC. Drummond was 17 pts, 11 rebs, 2 blocks with a 22 PER. Vucevic was 22 PER, 20 pts, 11 rebs, 1 block. Gobert was 22 PER, 15 pts, 14 rebs and 2 blocks.

I'm not sure Gobert is a player you max out. The overall value just isn't there.
 
Top