Name the 5 starters and

[NAOS]

Burke + Burks + 2nd rounder for a mid 1st.. this year or '17.

hell no. wow.

 

[Dr. Jones]

hell no. wow.

I didn't think it through.. but my thought was get rid of a somewhat bad contract (Burks), a player we don't need, and add a pick in '17 giving us three 1sts in a loaded draft.. allowing us to move up for a stud.

Yeah, probably too much though. Oh well.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I've been asking for a sensible contradiction to my argument. I'm not escalating (@green I disagree with you, but thanks for putting that together), I'm just asking for an argument.

In the Burks/Hay/Hood combo, Burks can play entirely off-ball. He may or may not guard the PG, who's probably gonna a run a PnR, and we're gonna switch in that lineup anyway. Regardless, if Burks is on the PG, it'll be backup PG (since I'm not suggesting this as a starting lineup), and it isn't as if he'd be replacing a defensive juggernaut.

We could sign a veteran wing. If so, then this combo is less likely.

We could draft a wing. If so, this may be less likely, pending the development of the rookie.

Those are fairly big IFs, so I'll go with the odds of this combo.

Let's talk offense for a moment and come back to d.

Who brings the ball up, reads the d, calls the play, gets players in position, and distributes the ball (while not getting the ball hawked/crowded)?

Burks is not a good enough 3pt shooter to have the d back off him and not a good enough ball handler to be breaking traps and quick double teams at the half-court corners, on the regular.

Of course that's just my opinion and I am attempting to engage you to your way of thinking.

 

[NAOS]

Let's talk offense for a moment and come back to d.

Who brings the ball up, reads the d, calls the play, gets players in position, and distributes the ball (while not getting the ball hawked/crowded)?

Burks can easily get the ball up the court and dump it to Hayward or Hood on the wings. I see either of those guys initiating the offense. Burks has the advantage of pushing the initial break hard. Hayward can also bring it up.

Burks is not a good enough 3pt shooter to have the d back off him and not a good enough ball handler to be breaking traps and quick double teams at the half-court corners, on the regular.

Of course that's just my opinion and I am attempting to engage you to your way of thinking.

If Burks isn't a good enough 3-point shooter, then, of our current players, nobody can replace him who is any better. Regardless, we're talking about an off-the-ball assignment right now anyway.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Burks can easily get the ball up the court and dump it to Hayward or Hood on the wings. I see either of those guys initiating the offense. Burks has the advantage of pushing the initial break hard. Hayward can also bring it up.



If Burks isn't a good enough 3-point shooter, then, of our current players, nobody can replace him who is any better. Regardless, we're talking about an off-the-ball assignment right now anyway.

Okay. Is everyone off-the-ball in this line up?

This has the feeling of a free-for-all offense. I am not suggesting every play has to be dominated by a prototype PG, but I can't see playing long stretches without one.

 

[fishonjazz]

So in order of importance, it seems we need;

1) Either a backup C or a stretch 4.
2) Better shooting from the wings.
3) More veteran leadership/playmaking at PG.

Looks like our best trade bait without giving up tooo much is Burks.

I would switch your #2 and #3 priorities.

Hood, Hayward, and Burks should all be right around 40% from 3 and ingles as well so our wing shooting will be ok imo.

Our point guards might have been the worst in the nba last year so I think that is a higher priority

 

[fishonjazz]

Opposing teams would salivate, as Burks gets buried in screens/gets caught sleeping on D while opposing PGs zip around. Highly highly doubt seeing any extensive PG minutes for Burks whatsoever.


Also, would bet my life that the Jazz won't go after Carroll this offseason.

I have said this many times but the best defense I have seen Burks play to this point in his career has been against elite pg's. He did great against cp3 and Tony Parker and he shut down Damien lillard when he was assigned to guard him late in a game that lillard was destroying us in.

It's a small sample size but I think Burks defends better against speed and quickness than size and power.
Plus 2 guards usually roam around without the ball and Burks loses track of them where with pg's he keeps his eye on them more since they usually have the ball and Burks likes to ball watch

Your point about getting killed on screens is valid though

 

[fishonjazz]

I think our only hole is backup 5. You can have three players play the 2 and 3 spots. Hayward and Hood can play the two or three. Hayward, Hood and Burks can each get 30 mins. They have Millsap and Ingles have 2-3 mins each. I really like our 2/3 rotation right now.

I agree.
Draft turner or Frank and we good

 

[Ellipse]

I don't think we will see a lot of all three on the floor at the same time.

I dunno. Maybe we will, but I think we'd see them at the 2, 3, and 4 instead of the 1, 2, and 3. I still think Utah brings in another PG

I think Exum's mins go up and I think Burke takes a big step forward not having to shoulder the scoring load.

That being said, I can't wait for summer league to see Exum. I want to see this new and improved kid. If he has any aggression to his game...

Here is to hoping.

I keep wondering when this myth will end. Burke never had to shoulder the scoring load; it was his domination of the ball and style of play that prevented his teammates from having an opportunity to score. Hayward got his by passing the ball to anyone but Burke.

 

[LogGrad98]

I keep wondering when this myth will end. Burke never had to shoulder the scoring load; it was his domination of the ball and style of play that prevented his teammates from having an opportunity to score. Hayward got his by passing the ball to anyone but Burke.

This. In spades. And diamonds and hearts and puppy-feet.

 

[fishonjazz]

Burke + Burks + 2nd rounder for a mid 1st.. this year or '17.

**** off dr jones.

You can't be serious right? Burke, burks, and a 2nd rounder for a mid first this year?...... Basically a player like dekker.
Burks by himself >> dekker.

You must have been using sarcasm in some way

 

[Ellipse]

I have said this many times but the best defense I have seen Burks play to this point in his career has been against elite pg's. He did great against cp3 and Tony Parker and he shut down Damien lillard when he was assigned to guard him late in a game that lillard was destroying us in.

It's a small sample size but I think Burks defends better against speed and quickness than size and power.
Plus 2 guards usually roam around without the ball and Burks loses track of them where with pg's he keeps his eye on them more since they usually have the ball and Burks likes to ball watch

Your point about getting killed on screens is valid though

Before Burke joined the team, I thought giving Burks spot minutes at pg was a great idea, not because I thought he would be a very good, but because we had the two worst point guards in the league playing for us. Now I would rather Cotton got minutes at pg over Burks. (Actually, I'd rather Cotton got minutes at point guard over Burke, but I will keep an open mind until we see if Burke has learned anything over the summer.)

 

[fishonjazz]

Before Burke joined the team, I thought giving Burks spot minutes at pg was a great idea, not because I thought he would be a very good, but because we had the two worst point guards in the league playing for us. Now I would rather Cotton got minutes at pg over Burks. (Actually, I'd rather Cotton got minutes at point guard over Burke, but I will keep an open mind until we see if Burke has learned anything over the summer.)

I don't disagree

 

[Ellipse]

I agree.
Draft turner or Frank and we good

I can see this, but I keep wondering why we should spend a lottery pick for a fourth big unless he is bpa. We could use one of our 2nd round picks to get a big and then we wouldn't have to worry about him sulking about minutes.

 

[Jazz Traveler]

We need a back up center and one more insurance big in case of injury or foul trouble.

Get rid of Burke. I think Cotton can not only match his production but surpass it. Burke is not a good fit for this team.

I think we"ll see a 3 man rotation of Burks, Hood and Hayward at the wing spot with a little bit of Jingles thrown in.

Exum's minutes should increase to 30 to 32.

We could use an experienced backup point if Burke is moved.

 

[Ellipse]

Let's talk offense for a moment and come back to d.

Who brings the ball up, reads the d, calls the play, gets players in position, and distributes the ball (while not getting the ball hawked/crowded)?

Burks is not a good enough 3pt shooter to have the d back off him and not a good enough ball handler to be breaking traps and quick double teams at the half-court corners, on the regular.

Of course that's just my opinion and I am attempting to engage you to your way of thinking.

Actually, last year the Jazz ran a lot of offensive plays that started with Hayward or Ingles bringing the ball up the floor while Exum went to the corner. There isn't any reason to believe they can't do the same with Hood and Burks in place of Exum and Ingles. I doubt Quin would use that lineup more than a few minutes a game, but I expect to see it next year.

 

[green]

I keep wondering when this myth will end. Burke never had to shoulder the scoring load; it was his domination of the ball and style of play that prevented his teammates from having an opportunity to score. Hayward got his by passing the ball to anyone but Burke.

Seeing how both Burke and Snyder have said repeatedly he was moved to provide scoring from the bench...

I believe that over your made up myths.

 

[NAOS]

Okay. Is everyone off-the-ball in this line up?

This has the feeling of a free-for-all offense. I am not suggesting every play has to be dominated by a prototype PG, but I can't see playing long stretches without one.

You can build good offensive structure with Hayward and Hood as half-court initiators.

Burks is in there for the initial Parker-esq burn down the court. He drives to score. If his green-lighted scoring options aren't available, then Hood and Hayward take over.

This is anything but a structureless notion.

 

[Ellipse]

Seeing how both Burke and Snyder have said repeatedly he was moved to provide scoring from the bench...

I believe that over your made up myths.

Had Burke actually been a scorer, I might believe that was Quin's true motivation for the lineup change.

 

[Jeffrey32]

I like starting Alec to have another play make on the floor especially if Exum is just a spot up shooter again.


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