Norm Chow to Hawaii.

[Gyp Rosetti]

What do you mean?

Yes, I think Chow has good relationship with many PAC 12 footprint coaches. Yes, I think that enabled the Utes coaches to establish relationships with many high school coaches that they did not have relationships with before. Yes, I think these high school.coaches have a lot of respect for Chow (and now the rest of the Utah coaching staff).

So yes, I think Chow did a lot for Utah. If you disagree with that then you need a little intellectual honesty yourself.

According to www.rivals.com, they had the 32nd best recruiting class in 2010. The 37th in 2011. Their current crop sits at 47th. Yeah, he really helped to point them in the right direction.

He may have initially helped but his departure and their lower current class tells me recruits and perhaps their coaches alike realize Chow's a basic nobody and his presence and now, lack thereof, means **** to the program.

 

[SaltyDawg]

According to www.rivals.com, they had the 32nd best recruiting class in 2010. The 37th in 2011. Their current crop sits at 47th. Yeah, he really helped to point them in the right direction.

He may have initially helped but his departure and their lower current class tells me recruits and perhaps their coaches alike realize Chow's a basic nobody and his presence and now, lack thereof, means **** to the program.

Let me guess, Alabama wouldn't recruit a single one of them, right?

I don't give a **** what rivals says about Utah's recruiting class. We'll see how good they are when they actually start playing.

Rivals ranking has nothing to do with why Chow was brought in. Chow introducing new recruiting avenues, scouting reports, etc. has nothing to do with rivals rankings. Plenty of recruits said they chose Utah because of Chow.

I agree that Chow sucks. But to pretend he didn't help Utah in any way is ridiculous. The dude coached several Heisman winners. You may not think that matters, but several recruits said they chose Utah because of Chow. And yesterday one said he chose Utah because of Chow and he would see how the visit went before deciding to retract his verbal or not.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Let me guess, Alabama wouldn't recruit a single one of them, right?

I don't give a **** what rivals says about Utah's recruiting class. We'll see how good they are when they actually start playing.

Rivals ranking has nothing to do with why Chow was brought in. Chow introducing new recruiting avenues, scouting reports, etc. has nothing to do with rivals rankings. Plenty of recruits said they chose Utah because of Chow.

I agree that Chow sucks. But to pretend he didn't help Utah in any way is ridiculous. The dude coached several Heisman winners. You may not think that matters, but several recruits said they chose Utah because of Chow. And yesterday one said he chose Utah because of Chow and he would see how the visit went before deciding to retract his verbal or not.

Intellectual honesty running wild here like always.

 

[SaltyDawg]

Intellectual honesty running wild here like always.

Start a poll. Lets see who is off the deep end here. I guarantee you that of the people who followed the situation, way more will agree with me than you (Chow sucks at play calling but helped the Utes with recruiting avenues and scouting reports).

I've been saying all year that Chow sucked. But even I acknowledge that he wasn't brought in to drastically improve an already very good offense.

Witt said (when Chow was first hired) that he was going to be a big help with recruiting and game planning due to all his experience in the PAC 10.

If you're denying that Chow helped in those areas then you need a little intellectual honesty of your own.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Start a poll. Lets see who is off the deep end here. I guarantee you that of the people who followed the situation, way more will agree with me than you (Chow sucks at play calling but helped the Utes with recruiting avenues and scouting reports).

I've been saying all year that Chow sucked. But even I acknowledge that he wasn't brought in to drastically improve an already very good offense.

Witt said (when Chow was first hired) that he was going to be a big help with recruiting and game planning due to all his experience in the PAC 10.

If you're denying that Chow helped in those areas then you need a little intellectual honesty of your own.

A poll? Yeah, I'm sure Utah fans will be objective. Again, you just don't get it. I said he helped. At first. But over time a man's true "worth" is revealed and it's no wonder why their recruiting classes have gotten worse each of the last two years. According to Rivals at least. Not that they know **** compared to SaltyDawg though.

 

[SaltyDawg]

A poll? Yeah, I'm sure Utah fans will be objective. Again, you just don't get it. I said he helped. At first. But over time a man's true "worth" is revealed and it's no wonder why their recruiting classes have gotten worse each of the last two years. According to Rivals at least. Not that they know **** compared to SaltyDawg though.

You do know Chow was not even with the Utes a full year, right? Just making sure. Because, you know, considering that he was not even with the Utes a full year, your point about the Utes recruiting classes over the last 2 years doesn't make any sense.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

You do know Chow was not even with the Utes a full year, right? Just making sure. Because, you know, considering that he was not even with the Utes a full year, your point about the Utes recruiting classes over the last 2 years doesn't make any sense.

How does this help your argument? So in the one year he was there and now left, they've dropped from 37th to 47th. Sounds like he's done wonders. But yes, yes, if Salty says he has, he has. Salty > Rivals.

 

[SaltyDawg]

How does this help your argument? So in the one year he was there and now left, they've dropped from 37th to 47th. Sounds like he's done wonders. But yes, yes, if Salty says he has, he has. Salty > Rivals.

So what would rivals have ranked Utah's recruiting class without Chow? You don't know? Then the rivals ranking doesn't mean anything.

And yes, I already know, Alabama wouldn't have recruited a single one of Utah's recruits, right?

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

Salty Wrote:

Utah averaged 33.1 points per game last year. I don't think Chow was brought in to improve the offense. I'm pretty sure it was just because he had a big name and had recruiting avenues that nobody on Utah's staff had.

The offense was horrid in 2010 and the 33.1 points per game is a flawed metric to base it on. Utah piled up 50 and 60+ points on teams like San Jose State, New Mexico and Iowa State. When they actually faced decent competition, the offense couldn't move the ball, was a turnover machine, and hardly generated points. TCU, Notre Dame, and Boise State all shut down Utah's offense and it wasn't even a fight.

I'm actually hoping Utah goes back to the spread.

I respectfully disagree with you even more on this point. Travis Wilson is a pro style QB, Chase Hansen is probably closer to being a tweener in regards to what offense he could run but he certainly has the build to be a pocket style passer as well. Utah is currently recruiting QB's to run the offense they installed this year and they are lucky to be getting 2 QB's with so much talent. Changing the offense for the 2nd time in 2 years seems a bit flaky and I have to wonder how that will be received by potential offensive recruits. Not only that, but Norm Chow was not the reason Kyle went with a pro style offense. He was in the middle of contacting Chow about potential coaches he could bring in to install that offense when Chow voiced his interest in joining the Utah staff.

I think it's safe to say that Utah can keep it's current offense and still improve by leaps and bounds by getting a little more innovative with the play calling along with more stable QB play.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

So what would rivals have ranked Utah's recruiting class without Chow? You don't know? Then the rivals ranking doesn't mean anything.

And yes, I already know, Alabama wouldn't have recruited a single one of Utah's recruits, right?

Yes I do know. Their 2010 class was ranked 34th. Better without him. But that's neither here nor there. All that matters is this amazing footprint he's left behind and evidently it's so strong that their recruiting class for 2012 is ranked 10 notches lower than last year's. Again, that's one hell of a footprint.

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

Shouldnt we wait until the 2012 recruiting class is actually complete before we argue rankings?

 

[//r00t 4 Jazz]

I'm trying to find links to where I heard this but I know I heard SO FAR the Utes hadn't lost anybody due to Chow leaving, but it is still early and I'm sure we don't know a lot of the potential recruits considering the U.

So far the only link is Kelvin York (RB) kept and signed his letter of intent https://utahutes.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/122111aaa.html

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

I'm trying to find links to where I heard this but I know I heard SO FAR the Utes hadn't lost anybody due to Chow leaving, but it is still early and I'm sure we don't know a lot of the potential recruits considering the U.

So far the only link is Kelvin York (RB) kept and signed his letter of intent https://utahutes.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/122111aaa.html

I read that the JC O-lineman recruit they call Cheech (can't remember his actual name) may be rethinking his verbal now that Chow is gone. Utah expected a LOI from him yesterday and it did not come. My main concern was with the 2 QB recruits and they both still seem rock solid.

 

[SaltyDawg]

The offense was horrid in 2010 and the 33.1 points per game is a flawed metric to base it on. Utah piled up 50 and 60+ points on teams like San Jose State, New Mexico and Iowa State. When they actually faced decent competition, the offense couldn't move the ball, was a turnover machine, and hardly generated points. TCU, Notre Dame, and Boise State all shut down Utah's offense and it wasn't even a fight.

I respectfully disagree with you even more on this point. Travis Wilson is a pro style QB, Chase Hansen is probably closer to being a tweener in regards to what offense he could run but he certainly has the build to be a pocket style passer as well. Utah is currently recruiting QB's to run the offense they installed this year and they are lucky to be getting 2 QB's with so much talent. Changing the offense for the 2nd time in 2 years seems a bit flaky and I have to wonder how that will be received by potential offensive recruits. Not only that, but Norm Chow was not the reason Kyle went with a pro style offense. He was in the middle of contacting Chow about potential coaches he could bring in to install that offense when Chow voiced his interest in joining the Utah staff.

I think it's safe to say that Utah can keep it's current offense and still improve by leaps and bounds by getting a little more innovative with the play calling along with more stable QB play.

Last year TCU gave up an average of 12.4 points per game, which was best in the nation. Boise State gave up 12.8 points per game, 2nd best in the nation. Notre Dame gave up 20.2, good for 19th in the nation. Saying Utah's offense sucked because it was shut down by 3 of the best defensive teams in the nation (including the top 2 defensive teams) is pretty ridiculous.

Last year Iowa State gave up 31.5 points per game for 88th in the nation, San Jose State gave up 38.7 points for 114th in the nation, New Mexico gave up 44.3 points for 120th in the nation. This year Arizona gave up 37.7 points for 111th in the nation, Colorado gave up 36.5 points for 106th in the nation, Washington gave up 33.9 points for 100th in the nation, and Washington State gave up 32.7 points for 95th in the nation.

Once the facts are presented, last years offense looks pretty dang good.

As for the formations, I prefer a spread. I am not against the pro set though if team and coaches can make it work. Clearly that was not the case this year.

 

[SaltyDawg]

According to www.rivals.com, they had the 32nd best recruiting class in 2010. The 37th in 2011. Their current crop sits at 47th. Yeah, he really helped to point them in the right direction.

He may have initially helped but his departure and their lower current class tells me recruits and perhaps their coaches alike realize Chow's a basic nobody and his presence and now, lack thereof, means **** to the program.

Yes I do know. Their 2010 class was ranked 34th. Better without him. But that's neither here nor there. All that matters is this amazing footprint he's left behind and evidently it's so strong that their recruiting class for 2012 is ranked 10 notches lower than last year's. Again, that's one hell of a footprint.

So you point out that Utah was trending down well before Chow was even being considered. Then you blame Chow for them continuing that trend when he was only here less than one year? lol, and then you say everyone but you needs some intellectual honesty.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

So you point out that Utah was trending down well before Chow was even being considered. Then you blame Chow for them continuing that trend when he was only here less than one year? lol, and then you say everyone but you needs some intellectual honesty.

So Utah's recruiting class is better this year thus far than last? Got it. Dude, I like you, I really do. But your inability to be objective is hilariously pathetic. Chow's gone and according to you he's left such a footprint that it's going to make a mark in their recruiting efforts. A mark that has them "trending down" as you admit. So how again has his footprint continued to help them when their current class is ranked ten spots lower than last year's class?

 

[SaltyDawg]

So Utah's recruiting class is better this year thus far than last? Got it. Dude, I like you, I really do. But your inability to be objective is hilariously pathetic. Chow's gone and according to you he's left such a footprint that it's going to make a mark in their recruiting efforts. A mark that has them "trending down" as you admit. So how again has his footprint continued to help them when their current class is ranked ten spots lower than last year's class?

I said this year's recruiting class was better than last? No. SalmonHobo has another Straw Man argument? Yes. Got it.

I said Chow introduced the Utes to recruiting avenues that they did not previously have. This has been confirmed by coach Whit numerous times. And yes, that is a good thing. Whether rivals says this years recruiting class is better than last years or not has absolutely nothing to do with that. Which is why it was puzzling when you kept bringing it up.

Another thing, coach Whitt once said the people at rivals didn't know anything. He said if they did they'd be coaching, lol.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

I said this year's recruiting class was better than last? No. SalmonHobo has another Straw Man argument? Yes. Got it.

I said Chow introduced the Utes to recruiting avenues that they did not previously have. This has been confirmed by coach Whit numerous times. And yes, that is a good thing. Whether rivals says this years recruiting class is better than last years or not has absolutely nothing to do with that. Which is why it was puzzling when you kept bringing it up.

Another thing, coach Whitt once said the people at rivals didn't know anything. He said if they did they'd be coaching, lol.

If he's opened so many avenues, why is their recruiting class ranked ten spots lower?

 

[SaltyDawg]

If he's opened so many avenues, why is their recruiting class ranked ten spots lower?

Who is to say it wouldn't have been 50 spots lower without him? It was already trending down before he came, so it's ridiculous that you blame him for that trend.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Who is to say it wouldn't have been 50 spots lower without him? It was already trending down before he came, so it's ridiculous that you blame him for that trend.

Lol. Okay. But what happened to their admittance to the Pac-12 helping their recruiting efforts too? But yeah, who's to say it wouldn't have been 118th ranked. Moran.