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Game Thread Nov 25, 2022 08:00PM MT: Jazz at Warriors

Added to Calendar: 11-25-22

sip said:
I swear you live in an alternate universe. The jazz have by no means played a nightmare schedule. It had the potential to be but it actually ended up being a lot softer with a lot of teams missing key players or being in a rut when we faced them.
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Fine. Not a nightmare. Just a tougher schedule than the rest of the league then.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Utah Jazz: The Collin Sexton Edition.

I don't enjoy watching this group anymore. And it's not just about the losses. It's the way we play now.

No, Sexton not the only problem. But he's pretty much the personification of what's wrong. Just too many guys playing atrocious defense (either lazy, or stupid, or just plain bad) and then forcing rushed shots with blinders at the other end. Yes, Sexton "tries hard". But he's being paid $17 million to play basketball this year. It's not enough to try hard.

The example set by Mike Conley was much more important than his stats. Somehow he was able to curb the worst impulses of some of the guys he played with, just by being out there with them, calmly playing team basketball. Making the right passes to cutters, standing his ground on defense (even at 35 years of age and 6'1''), never losing focus.

Now he's gone and it's affecting everyone, in various ways.

Lauri is lost. Clarkson is playing for Team Free Agency. Hardy doesn't have his "coach on the floor". And God only knows what Vando is doing.

How is it possible to have an NBA team with zero capable playmakers left on the roster when the starter goes down?
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what is your definiton of playmaker? sexton is averaging like 10 assists per game in the last two.
 
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Tremendous Upside said:
I want Sexton and Vando out of there anyway, but the transition and perimeter (especially, point-of-attack) defense is more a question of effort. I mean.... this same personnel (+ Conley, who's 45 years old) was doing a good job there just a month ago. They can do it again if they want to.
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Transition and perimeter defense is more a question of effort. So we need to remove the two guys on the team who put in more effort than anyone so the perimeter and transition defense gets better. Makes sense.
 
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fishonjazz said:
what is your definiton of playmaker? sexton is averaging like 10 assists per game in the last two.
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He has been making the easier passes now as guard should do. IMO becoming a true pg requires of recognising better the off ball cuts. But Collin shares the ball well with the obvious limitations he is so far having - he hasnt schooled to be pg. He finds open shooter behind the arc and in the middle when he is driving himself. But as long as he can not replicate half of the IQ-Mike is having he is better off being the secondary ball handler in agood team. Bt we do not have lot of options with Mike being out.u

But the way he is now sharing ball more than ever shows he cares and might even learn the more difficult floor general duties over years. It is ok if he does not but nice if he does.
More than not finding too well off the cuts team mates I think he is doing OK. The way Mike is setting the overall tone of the offense is then another ballpark of skills. And he is with that so elite its not easy to find someone like him.
 
I think it’s extremely weird how some posters on here use Sexton as a scapegoat when we got dudes playing like absolutely trash and he isn’t one of them. Andy Larsen is doing it too. He will tweet negatively about Sexton but doesn’t do it with other guys. Like why did he post that one drive by Sexton against Draymond when he had a ton of amazing plays besides that? Just super weird.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
So you're using the last two games - with THT in a marginalized role - to justify not starting him back when Conley went down?

THT had been playing well before it happened, which is my point. No he's not a pure playmaker either, but at least he doesn't have to stop and think in order to run a simple pick and roll.

I'd like to hear a single convincing argument in favor or starting Sexton. THT's length alone should put him ahead of Collin - at least he can defend. Both these guys make boneheaded mistakes, but that's true of everyone on this team.
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Dear lord… it’s the same exact ****ing role he’s had… there is no argument needed… go look at the back of both players basketball cards.
 
Elizah Huge said:
I think it’s extremely weird how some posters on here use Sexton as a scapegoat when we got dudes playing like absolutely trash and he isn’t one of them. Andy Larsen is doing it too. He will tweet negatively about Sexton but doesn’t do it with other guys. Like why did he post that one drive by Sexton against Draymond when he had a ton of amazing plays besides that? Just super weird.
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This seems weird for me too. Our bigs on first half had some lapses too. As of being Lauri homer i cringed when he got the second time stripped after grabbing a defensive board. It has not happened a lot now... But in the past more. I got thinking if his concentration is off a bit. Clarkson also had some bad turnovers... and I do not remember what KO did but I remember I also cringed for him few times. And ALL our guards were slow in several possessions to run back into defense. JC was even going after his bad three ball he shot and then waving for Kessler to run into defense meanwhile being kinda slow to do it himself.
A serious question: did we just get gassed af with the schedule and then the combination of few losses and missing Mike got our team hanging their heads. Because for me it seems the endorphins and adrenaline we got from winning kept us going. Being there on the court with people thats quite new for them and not having things going right now leads to all kinds of issues.

Singling out Collin is just stupid.
 
We need a new stat: one that tells created looks for team mates. Makes or misses. Or if someone has that kind of stats I am interested to see. I bet teams have some software for this but never seen stats of these.
 
sip said:
I swear you live in an alternate universe. The jazz have by no means played a nightmare schedule. It had the potential to be but it actually ended up being a lot softer with a lot of teams missing key players or being in a rut when we faced them. Also the wolves have looked over the last few weeks regardless of the schedule and it is stupid not to acknowledge that. Obviously I hope it all falls apart but they seem to be figuring some things out. The same thing goes for the Lakers. They are looking a lot better and to say otherwise makes no sense.
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Wow.

I think if the Lakers played 5 straight games at home against the Rockets, Magic, Spurs (2x), and Hornets, with no b2b's, and the Jazz played 5 straight road games in 7 nights, 2 of them b2b's, @ Mil, @ Cle, @ Bos, @ Phx (2x), but in one of the games the Cavs were missing Garland and in the Suns games they were missing CP3, I swear this guy at the end of it would be like "Wow the Lakers are looking way better than the Jazz now! And the Jazz had a soft schedule too - so many teams missing key players."

Wait until the Jazz struggle for a stretch against the non hell part of their schedule and for the Wolves/Lakers to thrive against the non gimme parts of their schedule, and *then* it becomes a meaningful discussion.
 
Elizah Huge said:
I think it’s extremely weird how some posters on here use Sexton as a scapegoat when we got dudes playing like absolutely trash and he isn’t one of them. Andy Larsen is doing it too. He will tweet negatively about Sexton but doesn’t do it with other guys. Like why did he post that one drive by Sexton against Draymond when he had a ton of amazing plays besides that? Just super weird.
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"Why aren't y'all slobbing as hard, wet, and long as I am?" is also super weird
 
Sexton is going to get critiqued hard. He's a lottery pick who just signed a long term contract.

He's also a very interesting case study in terms of how to evaluate basketball, especially when you have Conley on the same team providing a contrasting impact ability
 
Step-Back Hook said:
He has been making the easier passes now as guard should do. IMO becoming a true pg requires of recognising better the off ball cuts. But Collin shares the ball well with the obvious limitations he is so far having - he hasnt schooled to be pg. He finds open shooter behind the arc and in the middle when he is driving himself. But as long as he can not replicate half of the IQ-Mike is having he is better off being the secondary ball handler in agood team. Bt we do not have lot of options with Mike being out.u

But the way he is now sharing ball more than ever shows he cares and might even learn the more difficult floor general duties over years. It is ok if he does not but nice if he does.
More than not finding too well off the cuts team mates I think he is doing OK. The way Mike is setting the overall tone of the offense is then another ballpark of skills. And he is with that so elite its not easy to find someone like him.
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I have seen him make multiple extremely difficult high IQ passes to teammates for easy dunks and layups. Not just simple passes to guys who then do all the work to get the bucket. He has been setting the table for teammates to get easy buckets with very high IQ plays.
 
fishonjazz said:
I have seen him make multiple extremely difficult high IQ passes to teammates for easy dunks and layups. Not just simple passes to guys who then do all the work to get the bucket. He has been setting the table for teammates to get easy buckets with very high IQ plays.
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I have seen few too but I look closer now on these becoming matches. I have been all my life a lover of bigs so I admit that aside Lauri I am looking more closer what KO and Kessler does than our guards.
 
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