If he did the rebuilding right in the first place we wouldnt have to rebuild again so quikly, after just a 5-yr playoff run and diminishing results with every passing year. KOC is good at salvaging something out of a crisis type of situation and his fans applaud him for that. But what they forget is that he is part of the reason why they had that crisis in th first place. While they applaud him for getting Korver in place of Girisuck, they forget that it was KOC who got us Girisuck in the first place.Forget his draft pick mistakes. Quite a few of his trades and FA signings starting from Meech/Starks to Girisuck to Bell havent gone too well either. He is still better than a lot of GMs and like I said he is good at pulling the team out of crisis situations, but there is nothing much to go euphoric about him. Maybe if he works with an owner like Cuban in the future we might get to know if he can be even more risk-taking and pro-active.
Now this is just getting ****ing ridiculous - Portland after one of the Jazz . . . again.
- Thread starter Mr. McGibblets
- Start date
If he did the rebuilding right in the first place we wouldnt have to rebuild again so quikly, after just a 5-yr playoff run and diminishing results with every passing year. KOC is good at salvaging something out of a crisis type of situation and his fans applaud him for that. But what they forget is that he is part of the reason why they had that crisis in th first place. While they applaud him for getting Korver in place of Girisuck, they forget that it was KOC who got us Girisuck in the first place.Forget his draft pick mistakes. Quite a few of his trades and FA signings starting from Meech/Starks to Girisuck to Bell havent gone too well either. He is still better than a lot of GMs and like I said he is good at pulling the team out of crisis situations, but there is nothing much to go euphoric about him. Maybe if he works with an owner like Cuban in the future we might get to know if he can be even more risk-taking and pro-active.
And may I add that in all of these Wesley Matthews histrionics, nobody ever mentions that Matthews would never have sniffed his success without KOC being on top of signing him in the first place? Sure, the Jazz have never really found a steal late in the first round, but most don't, and most don't have his record in drafting in the 2nd round either.
And at the risk of infuriating someone, I'm pretty sure 1st rounders were much more Sloan and ownership than it was KOC. I'm pretty sure I've heard as much but I don't have a LINK?????
And at the risk of infuriating someone, I'm pretty sure 1st rounders were much more Sloan and ownership than it was KOC. I'm pretty sure I've heard as much but I don't have a LINK?????
Let's talk about bungles here:
1) AK's contract: I don't know what advice KOC gave on this, but I know it wasn't his call and I'm skeptical he did the convincing to ownership. I'm quite confident it was the other way around.
2) Memo's contract: See above.
3) Harpring's contract: Wasn't bad except for the amount of years. ****ing dumb. See above again.
4) Maynor trade: Refer to Harpring and AK contract
5) Not matching Matthews: Refer to AK and Memo's contract/not really his call
6) 2004 draft: Criticism has foundation
7) Brewer trade: some say the Jazz got robbed, some know the Jazz pulled a fast one on the Grizzlies. I'm in the latter camp, it wasn't a mistake. Either way, if it comes down to spending the money or not, it's not KOC's.
I think the Jazz should've been far more aggressive from '07-'09 but again, he's only allowed to do what he's allowed to do and had been 3rd in command on FO decisions through most of his tenure. As of now, I think he's finally got the reigns, and I think he's done as good a job as anyone could ask, regardless of how painful it is to see Matthews look like a perfect fit.
1) AK's contract: I don't know what advice KOC gave on this, but I know it wasn't his call and I'm skeptical he did the convincing to ownership. I'm quite confident it was the other way around.
2) Memo's contract: See above.
3) Harpring's contract: Wasn't bad except for the amount of years. ****ing dumb. See above again.
4) Maynor trade: Refer to Harpring and AK contract
5) Not matching Matthews: Refer to AK and Memo's contract/not really his call
6) 2004 draft: Criticism has foundation
7) Brewer trade: some say the Jazz got robbed, some know the Jazz pulled a fast one on the Grizzlies. I'm in the latter camp, it wasn't a mistake. Either way, if it comes down to spending the money or not, it's not KOC's.
I think the Jazz should've been far more aggressive from '07-'09 but again, he's only allowed to do what he's allowed to do and had been 3rd in command on FO decisions through most of his tenure. As of now, I think he's finally got the reigns, and I think he's done as good a job as anyone could ask, regardless of how painful it is to see Matthews look like a perfect fit.
Mission Accomplished
Well-Known Member
Let's talk about bungles here:
1) AK's contract: I don't know what advice KOC gave on this, but I know it wasn't his call and I'm skeptical he did the convincing to ownership. I'm quite confident it was the other way around.
2) Memo's contract: See above.
3) Harpring's contract: Wasn't bad except for the amount of years. ****ing dumb. See above again.
There is now way of proving that KOC didn't push for these contracts. The AK move could have been a whole different situation. Have you ever thought that AK turned out the way he did because of who KOC brought in...I mean how do you expect AK to want to be a trooper and play great D. When he can't even sniff the ball on the offensive end of the court.
4) Maynor trade: Refer to Harpring and AK contract
Why even waste a pick on Maynor when there were other picks that could have helped our team? I mean Chase Budinger, Sam Young, and DeJuan Blair. Which we had needs at PF and SF before going after a backup PG.
5) Not matching Matthews: Refer to AK and Memo's contract/not really his call
See all of my posts above if we would have offered him what we offered Raja then we wouldn't have the POS and we would have Matthews.
6) 2004 draft: Criticism has foundation
2000 - DeShawn Stevenson = good pick not on team
2001 - Raul Lopez, Jarron Collins = horrible draft
2002 - Curtis Borchardt = horrible draft
2003 - Sasha Pavlovic, Mo Williams = OK draft neither on team
2004 - Kris Humphries, Kirk Snyder = horrible draft
2005 - Deron Williams, CJ Miles, Robert Whaley= Good draft
2006 - Ronnie Brewer, Dee Brown, Paul Millsap = Good draft Dee Brown was given up on way too soon
2007 - Morris Almond, Kyrylo Fesenko = horrible draft MO Almond was given up on way too soon
2008 - Kosta Koufos, Ante Tomic, Tadija Dragicevic = Poor draft we could have had Ibaka that is what most board had us taking
2009 - Eric Maynor, Goran Suton = horrible draft
2010 - Gordon Hayward, Jeremy Evans= TBD love Evans upside I'm not high on Gordon Hayward
2011 - Enes Kanter, Alec Burk = Great picks but look at what we had to do to get this trade away a top 3 PG and lose a lot of games
7) Brewer trade: some say the Jazz got robbed, some know the Jazz pulled a fast one on the Grizzlies. I'm in the latter camp, it wasn't a mistake. Either way, if it comes down to spending the money or not, it's not KOC's.
This started the path to a disgruntled Deron. The team was playing good and the chemistry was high and KOC took the second after Dee Brown of Dwill's close friends and shipped him off for not anything to help the team immediately a strong message you are sending to you superstar.
I think the Jazz should've been far more aggressive from '07-'09 but again, he's only allowed to do what he's allowed to do and had been 3rd in command on FO decisions through most of his tenure. As of now, I think he's finally got the reigns, and I think he's done as good a job as anyone could ask, regardless of how painful it is to see Matthews look like a perfect fit.
The personel moves of the Jazz rest on KOC's head so if push comes to shove he can get his way. He killed us by ridding Boozer when he was a cancer in the locker room, he wanted out, and he was teaching Dwill that when you are a star the team is going to bend over for you.
1) AK's contract: I don't know what advice KOC gave on this, but I know it wasn't his call and I'm skeptical he did the convincing to ownership. I'm quite confident it was the other way around.
2) Memo's contract: See above.
3) Harpring's contract: Wasn't bad except for the amount of years. ****ing dumb. See above again.
There is now way of proving that KOC didn't push for these contracts. The AK move could have been a whole different situation. Have you ever thought that AK turned out the way he did because of who KOC brought in...I mean how do you expect AK to want to be a trooper and play great D. When he can't even sniff the ball on the offensive end of the court.
4) Maynor trade: Refer to Harpring and AK contract
Why even waste a pick on Maynor when there were other picks that could have helped our team? I mean Chase Budinger, Sam Young, and DeJuan Blair. Which we had needs at PF and SF before going after a backup PG.
5) Not matching Matthews: Refer to AK and Memo's contract/not really his call
See all of my posts above if we would have offered him what we offered Raja then we wouldn't have the POS and we would have Matthews.
6) 2004 draft: Criticism has foundation
2000 - DeShawn Stevenson = good pick not on team
2001 - Raul Lopez, Jarron Collins = horrible draft
2002 - Curtis Borchardt = horrible draft
2003 - Sasha Pavlovic, Mo Williams = OK draft neither on team
2004 - Kris Humphries, Kirk Snyder = horrible draft
2005 - Deron Williams, CJ Miles, Robert Whaley= Good draft
2006 - Ronnie Brewer, Dee Brown, Paul Millsap = Good draft Dee Brown was given up on way too soon
2007 - Morris Almond, Kyrylo Fesenko = horrible draft MO Almond was given up on way too soon
2008 - Kosta Koufos, Ante Tomic, Tadija Dragicevic = Poor draft we could have had Ibaka that is what most board had us taking
2009 - Eric Maynor, Goran Suton = horrible draft
2010 - Gordon Hayward, Jeremy Evans= TBD love Evans upside I'm not high on Gordon Hayward
2011 - Enes Kanter, Alec Burk = Great picks but look at what we had to do to get this trade away a top 3 PG and lose a lot of games
7) Brewer trade: some say the Jazz got robbed, some know the Jazz pulled a fast one on the Grizzlies. I'm in the latter camp, it wasn't a mistake. Either way, if it comes down to spending the money or not, it's not KOC's.
This started the path to a disgruntled Deron. The team was playing good and the chemistry was high and KOC took the second after Dee Brown of Dwill's close friends and shipped him off for not anything to help the team immediately a strong message you are sending to you superstar.
I think the Jazz should've been far more aggressive from '07-'09 but again, he's only allowed to do what he's allowed to do and had been 3rd in command on FO decisions through most of his tenure. As of now, I think he's finally got the reigns, and I think he's done as good a job as anyone could ask, regardless of how painful it is to see Matthews look like a perfect fit.
The personel moves of the Jazz rest on KOC's head so if push comes to shove he can get his way. He killed us by ridding Boozer when he was a cancer in the locker room, he wanted out, and he was teaching Dwill that when you are a star the team is going to bend over for you.
D
Deleted member 848
Guest
This is the perfect example of why many posters on this forum don't take you very seriously.
Mission Accomplished
Well-Known Member
Why because I posted something you don't agree with.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH!
Matthews would NOT have taken $3M per for 2 years. You are absolutely the most delusional poster ever on this board. And KOC tried to get rid of Boozer. But he didn;t want to take back even WORSE contracts...like Rip's. Everyone believed Carlos was opting OUT. Even Carlos said so himself during the season. And then Carlos went on his self-promotion tour and found he had NO market. It takes two to tango. You can't just trade a player if there is no market. And there were no decent players offered for Carlos. Why do we know that? Because Greg Miller was the most down on Carlos. He would have authorized any reasonable deal. AS it was, getting a trade exception was the best outcome. Like Jefferson or not, that was a deal 2 years in the making. When no vibale offers were made for Carlos, KOC went ahead and put the wheels in motion for Big Al. And that included the trade exception and obtaining another 1st rounder. Why do we know this? Because Kahn told us the trade talks started before the trade deadline, but Utah didn't have the assets Minnesota wanted at the time.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Yes, he did. He and Kahn talked about a trade the previous year. Kahn disclosed that tidbit. So get your facts straight. Maybe your name should be "Intelligence Begone."
freakazoid
Well-Known Member
Regardless of what happened later, AK was a pretty damn good pick at #24 IMO.
Right, that was slightly hyperbolic. It hasn't happen with basically any frequency and not for a long time either. Maynor is really the only one that might qualify since that time and he's almost certainly a career backup.
Lakers_Slapper
Well-Known Member
Your right, people like you have no sense of perspective. "KOC has been quite good?" Like when? When he made decisions that were obvious and point blank, in his face? Is that a good decision or an obvious one? Do you know who he has drafted for the Jazz over the years? They could do a whole hell of a lot worse? Like who? You?
Anyone could take his place and make him look like the neandrathal that he is. We have a down syndrome primate in our front office that needs to be replaced. Explain how we could do worse. PLEASE, I think we all would like to hear this one.
freakazoid
Well-Known Member
Word. I say we hire an expert armchair GM or Captain Hindsight. That guy always seems to know what we should have done. He's crazy smart.