Obamacare

[LogGrad98]

If you lived in Germany, France, Japan, or Switzerland you would've had an insurance plan through your work. The primary difference is that these insurance plans provide better care at a fraction of the cost since their insurance companies operate as nonprofits. For example, in Germany you could get an insurance plan that covers preventative care and gym memberships (in the end these help prolong you life).

And if you had lost your job you'd still be covered. Your coverage doesn't end because your employment ends.

It quite honestly is amazing how we Americans combine 4 major health care models and think that we have some sort of a health care system and not a traffic jam of malicious greed, pork, and fraud. We combine the worker based health insurance of the Bismarck model. the UK's socialized medicine of the beveridge model for the VA. Canada's national health insurance model for Medicare. And the wonderful "out of pocket" model of Somalia where if ya got it ya got health care if not you're fed!

And we wonder why we have such a mess?

I think most of us are aware of this. The problem is it is so entrenched, and the 2 sides of the political spectrum so divided, that it will probably take a catastrophic collapse of the system to get it changed to anything remotely meaningful.

 

[Deleted member 365]

I think most of us are aware of this. The problem is it is so entrenched, and the 2 sides of the political spectrum so divided, that it will probably take a catastrophic collapse of the system to get it changed to anything remotely meaningful.

We are spending over 5 percent more in GDP than the next country. And we leave over 30 million (10 percent) of our population uninsured and screwed. The #1 cause of bankruptcy in our country is healthcare expenses. If this isn't a catastrophic collapse then I don't know what is.

The problem is Americans are just so isolated and completely ignorant of health care systems around the world. It's hard for a country like Germany to ignore its health care shortcomings when there are 10 countries nearby.

Republicans and their fake news (am radio and fox) have poisoned this debate so much that I agree, reform is almost impossible.

 

[Dr. Jones]

ok.

Btw, I love general statements. Good ones are my absolute jam. But then their are general statements that are so vanilla that they don't say/teach anything. Your quoted post was one of the latter, I'm afraid. Love you, doe, bro

Some words you spelled correctly, some you didn't.

 

[NAOS]

Some words you spelled correctly, some you didn't.

thanks.

 

[DutchJazzer]

Ready for Obamacare to go away. Was unemployed for about 4 months last year and applied for an exemption to the penalty. It was of course denied. So now I will be on the hook for $1600 because it took me 3 extra weeks to find a job. I have appealed it but that is the most ludicrous thing I can imagine. I was denied any financial assistance from the marketplace because my annual income was too high (already crossed the threshold before I got laid off last year), so monthly would have cost nearly $1000 for the "cheapest" qualifying plan. First time in over 20 years I have had a gap in insurance longer than 3 months and I get stuck owing $1600?? ****ing get rid of it already.

exactly, forcing you to buy something.

it is tyranny to force you to buy something at gun point

 

[Deleted member 365]

exactly, forcing you to buy something.

it is tyranny to force you to buy something at gun point

All other industrialized nations have an individual mandate for health care. Everyone must slap some skin into paying for health care just like defense. It's not tyranny but just common sense.

 

[DutchJazzer]

All other industrialized nations have an individual mandate for health care. Everyone must slap some skin into paying for health care just like defense. It's not tyranny but just common sense.

people who agree with what tyrants say, never see how it is tyranny until they disagree

 

[Deleted member 365]

people who agree with what tyrants say, never see how it is tyranny until they disagree

Ummmm no.

If you want the benefits of modern day universal health care system then you need to pay for its costs. The only way this can be paid for is with an individual mandate. Otherwise, you will have winners and losers (people who go bankrupt, become sick, and die for lack of coverage) and skyrocketing costs (because health care for uninsured is much more expensive). Get educated

 

[DutchJazzer]

Ummmm no.

If you want the benefits of modern day universal health care system then you need to pay for its costs. The only way this can be paid for is with an individual mandate. Otherwise, you will have winners and losers (people who go bankrupt, become sick, and die for lack of coverage) and skyrocketing costs (because health care for uninsured is much more expensive). Get educated

exactly IF YOU WANT IT!
comes back to my point about tyranny does not seem like tyranny if you agree.

here is the lil snag. I DO NOT WANT THE "BENEFITS" of universal HEALTHCARE!!!!!!!!



get it through your thick skull. not everybody WANTS THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Deleted member 365]

exactly IF YOU WANT IT!
comes back to my point about tyranny does not seem like tyranny if you agree.

here is the lil snag. I DO NOT WANT THE "BENEFITS" of universal HEALTHCARE!!!!!!!!



get it through your thick skull. not everybody WANTS THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then move to Somalia. Pay as you go there. And if you suffer an accident or cannot pay, you die.

But modern western democracies have agreed that living longer and more fruitful lives because of modern day health care is better than not.

Dutch have ever been to a doctor? Hospital? Taken medication? Had surgery? Used an ambulance?

If you have then you have an interesting way of showing your contempt for universal health care.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I want Health insurance companies to go away. The amount of money they make is enough to pay for good health care for everyone. It is such a wasteful silly thing to pay for.

 

[Deleted member 365]

I want Health insurance companies to go away. The amount of money they make is enough to pay for good health care for everyone. It is such a wasteful silly thing to pay for.

We are literally the only industrialized county in the world whose primary health care providers are for profit health insurance. For profit health insurance still exists in countries that have adopted the Bismarck and Beveridge systems. But they are for things such as dentistry, optometry, and cosmetics.

For profit health insurance companies providing health care like a commodity such as plasma tvs or cotton underwear is so ridiculous. Of course premiums will continue to skyrocket as actual coverage declines. That's how they make profit.

Health insurance can still exist in the Bismarck system. But they're nonprofit, cannot deny claims or deny anyone for pre-exisiting conditions, and negotiate with health care providers for specific costs. Meaning, when you undergo treatment, there is a set cost.

Here in America? The cost for any operation will literally have hundreds of different prices depending on your doctor, insurance, and state. It's such a joke that leads to more bloat and skyrocketing costs. The patient ends up being the biggest loser. As s/he's seen as merely a gold mine to extract from, not to treat.