Game Thread Oct 13, 2021 07:00PM MT: Jazz vs. Bucks (Preseason)

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Butler looks pretty damn big to me. What are their height and weight comparisons?

They arent actually that far from each other, but Dwill has a good 15 lbs on him and a 3'' longer wingspan.

 

[NAOS]

Does Jared Butler have flairs of D-Will? Obviously doesnt have the huge body of D-Will that was key to his signature style, but I don't think anyone has had as satisfying a crossover on the Jazz as Butler since D-Will. Plus he has vision and willingness to pass.

Yeah that crossover is filthy af.

 

[LogGrad98]

Did kanter get min ahead of Rudy?

Did AB get min ahead of Donovan?

Did Lyles get min ahead of Jingles?

Did Bradley get min ahead of Royce?

Even the Great Georges Niang, aka Quin's son, did not get minutes ahead of Jeff Green until DL cut Jeff to force Quin play him more, and we know how that worked out for us.

Trust me, we wouldn't even be having this conversation about Quin if your worry is warranted cuz he would already haven been triple fired for burying Rudy/Jingles/Donovan/Royce back in 2015 or 2018, just like Corbin. Compared to ty Corbin and Dennis Lindsey, Quin's the least of my concern when it comes to judging talent cuz record shows time and time again that the man knows his ****.

You don't understand the concept of "if", do you?

 

[Thejazzkickazz]

Combine measurements:

Deron
Height w/o shoes: 6'1.75''
Weight: 202.4
Wingspan: 6'6.25''
Standing reach: 8'2''

Jared
Height w/o shoes: 6'2.25''
Weight: 193.0
Wingspan: 6'4''
Standing reach: 8'2.5''

So Butler's a tiny bit taller, but Deron had broader shoulders and 10 more lbs of weight.

LINK

The difference in weight was about 10 lbs of goo on Dwill. Butler is pure muscle, Dwill never looked like he was in peak shape.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Does Jared Butler have flairs of D-Will? Obviously doesnt have the huge body of D-Will that was key to his signature style, but I don't think anyone has had as satisfying a crossover on the Jazz as Butler since D-Will. Plus he has vision and willingness to pass.

The handles and movement to resemble some D-Will movements. I think he floats a bit more smoothly and D-Will was more forceful. He seems great at setting his guy up. Not sure who pre-maturely ducked the pick on his dunk but I think it was Jrue... the quick move to the straight line drive and dunk had some flashes of D-Willness.

He's very cerebral and seems to be able to get whatever he wants... less chaotic than the JC get buckets method. You could tell he was trying to set other guys up because he had room to take about 12 pullup threes last night.

Donovan has some ankle breakers but its more about his body movement than handles... Butler has great handles and the herky jerky movements that are gonna be tough to guard. If he perfects the pullup three his ceiling is wild (assuming health etc.).

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

So last night it seemed like the way they tried to beat switches was for the ball handler to wait for the big to get in rebounding position and then put up a pullup three over the big... They weren't able to get a board doing this but Hassan drew a foul. It looked intentional to me like the bigs new they were supposed to crash hard in that instance and it was part of the plan. They also threw it to them a couple times when they dove to the rim and sealed off the defender. It was somewhat productive.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Back to Butler... I have shared it before... will continue sharing it... everytime I watched Baylor to check on Mitchell I came away more impressed with Butler. His numbers were good last night but he didn't even have a great shooting game. Kid is just crazy skilled and smart for a rookie.

 

[infection]

Back to Butler... I have shared it before... will continue sharing it... everytime I watched Baylor to check on Mitchell I came away more impressed with Butler. His numbers were good last night but he didn't even have a great shooting game. Kid is just crazy skilled and smart for a rookie.

His cross-court passes are wild.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

His cross-court passes are wild.

If you can shoot, pass, dribble and finish at the rim then you are an offensive force. He seems capable of doing all of those things well and seems to be smart enough to mesh it together. He also won at a high level in college. I think we hit a home run... would be a grand slam if he was on a cheap four year deal but oh well.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

No one will grumble when DM, Conley, JC, or Joe have to sit a game here and there this year.

 

[Jazzmix]

I wouldn't put a cross on Oni yet. I think his main problem is lack of confidence on both ends. His shot looks good yet he misses a lot, he has the tools to be a good defender yet ends up fouling too much. I believe he can still improve and become an useful 3 and d player.

 

[KqWIN]

So last night it seemed like the way they tried to beat switches was for the ball handler to wait for the big to get in rebounding position and then put up a pullup three over the big... They weren't able to get a board doing this but Hassan drew a foul. It looked intentional to me like the bigs new they were supposed to crash hard in that instance and it was part of the plan. They also threw it to them a couple times when they dove to the rim and sealed off the defender. It was somewhat productive.

I noticed that too, looks like it will be a point of emphasis. I think it's ok. I like the PHX strategy of using their perimeter mismatch to get dribble penetration and then dump off to the big better. That's just not a pass Mitchell has mastered like the pass to the corner unfortunately.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I noticed that too, looks like it will be a point of emphasis. I think it's ok. I like the PHX strategy of using their perimeter mismatch to get dribble penetration and then dump off to the big better. That's just not a pass Mitchell has mastered like the pass to the corner unfortunately.

I don't know how well it will work shooting that shot tbh. I like the idea... I think we give it a try... but long shots produce long rebounds so it might not work as well as say driving into that big and putting up a shot and letting Rudy/Hassan clean it up... how many times have we seen Rudy come over and make a great play and then his guy sneaks in for the putback?

 

[jom2003]

If you can shoot, pass, dribble and finish at the rim then you are an offensive force. He seems capable of doing all of those things well and seems to be smart enough to mesh it together. He also won at a high level in college. I think we hit a home run... would be a grand slam if he was on a cheap four year deal but oh well.

I don't think he will fully take over until after Jingles and Conley phase out in 2023, so resigning him in two years instead of three might be a good thing cuz it would cost us less. Yes, I think the kid is capable of earning a max contract once handed the starting role, so it won't be the worst thing in the world to extend him before that happens. There are two different kinds of market for a PG who averages 10+4 and a PG who averages 16+7. See Malcolm Brogdon, who's currently massively outplaying his wages.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I don't think he will fully take over until after Jingles and Conley phase out in 2023, so resigning him in two years instead of three might be a good thing cuz it would cost us less. Yes, I think the kid is capable of earning a max contract once handed the starting role, so it won't be the worst thing in the world to extend him before that happens.

I'll take 4 cheap years and restricted FA... even after two years there are some limitations on the contract we can match. As a 4 year restricted FA we can match any deal he gets.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The handles and movement to resemble some D-Will movements. I think he floats a bit more smoothly and D-Will was more forceful. He seems great at setting his guy up. Not sure who pre-maturely ducked the pick on his dunk but I think it was Jrue... the quick move to the straight line drive and dunk had some flashes of D-Willness.

He's very cerebral and seems to be able to get whatever he wants... less chaotic than the JC get buckets method. You could tell he was trying to set other guys up because he had room to take about 12 pullup threes last night.

Donovan has some ankle breakers but its more about his body movement than handles... Butler has great handles and the herky jerky movements that are gonna be tough to guard. If he perfects the pullup three his ceiling is wild (assuming health etc.).

Biggest thing I notice about Butler is that he does a great job of using his eyes/head to fake where he's going while having an incredible change of speed dribble where he just pounds the **** out of the ball at a high velocity to change directions.

 

[jom2003]

I'll take 4 cheap years and restricted FA... even after two years there are some limitations on the contract we can match. As a 4 year restricted FA we can match any deal he gets.

Still, at least he'll be playing behind Conley in those two years so teams would have to take a massive gamble to offer a backup PG something we cannot match. Not ideal but there are some positives nonetheless.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Biggest thing I notice about Butler is that he does a great job of using his eyes/head to fake where he's going while having an incredible change of speed dribble where he just pounds the **** out of the ball at a high velocity to change directions.

He kinda reminds me of a bigger Kemba the way he moves and gets separation.

Whatever he becomes I'm excited he's here that's for damn sure.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Still, at least he'll be playing behind Conley in those two years so teams would have to take a massive gamble to offer a backup PG something we cannot match. Not ideal but there are some positives nonetheless.

I mean I guess but I still very much prefer the cheap 4 year deal over potentially saving something on an extension... half of the extension would have been covered by the rookie deal. I would rather give a deserving guy a max in 4 years (I think we are getting way ahead of ourselves here) than have to extend him at like 4/50M in 2 years unsure he worth it. The other thing the longer contract does is changes his trade value significantly. You don't want to trade a young prospect but that might be what we have to do to win a title.

 

[KqWIN]

I don't know how well it will work shooting that shot tbh. I like the idea... I think we give it a try... but long shots produce long rebounds so it might not work as well as say driving into that big and putting up a shot and letting Rudy/Hassan clean it up... how many times have we seen Rudy come over and make a great play and then his guy sneaks in for the putback?

Yup....and that's why I hate floaters. It's not efficient, it doesn't draw fouls, and it allows the big to stay in position for a rebound. You need to get the big man to commit. If Donovan can get better at manipulating the big he will take his game to a whole new level.