Official Rudy Gobert Trade Ideas Thread

[That1UtahFan]

The problem here is that he's actually had plenty of offensive help and it hasn't changed his defensive performance. I'm afraid he's probably just bad.

Which is so weird because when he was drafted it is was being sold that he was going to be seen as a defensive stopper

 

[Agent#00]

Does Rudy have a shooting coach? A skills/conditioning coach? Does he workout on his weakness? Hes still young his flaws can be fixed by training. What is he doing with all that money?

 

[LoPo]

Yeah take on the best player is not expected, agreed, but he has the tools to be at least a ++ defender, but he's barely a break-even defender even if he's applying himself. Corralling Murray is hardly top-notch defense, it really just shows that if we had had anyone who could just bother him he would never have had 2 fifty-point games.

And Jordan might be overrated but only someone who never watched the guy would question his defensive abilities. You don't get overrated onto 9 all-defense first teams, especially before he really took over the league. He won his DPOY 3 years before he even got to the finals.

But back to Mitchell, I really hope he works on that aspect of his game, we need him to be able to be a pesky defender and at least bother opposing guards. Murray is a great example of this. Frankly Donovan has the tools to have just plain shut Murray down but he really didn't do anything to slow him down until it was really too late. He needs to be better. Period.

I agree with your first paragraph. Don has to be more consistent.

Jordan was great, but perimeter defense was a joke in the late 80s early 90s when he was getting all defense accolades. His team was stacked and he was guarding 2nd guys like Craig Ehlo who wouldn't even be in the league now. Don, despite needing to do more, would have been one of the best perimeter defenders in the MJ era NBA.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[LoPo]

Which is so weird because when he was drafted it is was being sold that he was going to be seen as a defensive stopper

Yep. I thought he was gonna be a Beverly or maybe a Jrue but instead turned into Iverson. Never saw it coming.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[LogGrad98]

I agree with your first paragraph. Don has to be more consistent.

Jordan was great, but perimeter defense was a joke in the late 80s early 90s when he was getting all defense accolades. His team was stacked and he was guarding 2nd guys like Craig Ehlo who wouldn't even be in the league now. Don, despite needing to do more, would have been one of the best perimeter defenders in the MJ era NBA.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

Oh. Huh.

Yeah and really Donovan was as tall as Jordan because way back then in the yesteryears players were 5 inches shorter than they were listed at. And slow and weak. Jordan couldn't even jump as high as Donovan either. In fact in today's NBA Jordan would be lucky to be a bench player for the Kings, amirite?

 

[Hekate]

Here's where getting another 2 way player would help his game dramastically. At the current moment I think Don has to expend so much energy on the offensive end that he can seem somewhat turned off on the defensive end (I wouldn't be shocked if this is Quin telling him to do this basically saying you have Rudy behind you save your energy because you need him to create on offense). If you have a 2nd guy who can pick up the slack on both ends he can raise that defensive energy without sacrificing too much of the energy spent on offense.

This was my thinking before I focused on his defense but he is more lost than late. Watching him in rotation is pain. Can't keep the distance right as well, leaves too much space and can't react when that space is put to use.

I am not going to fault him much for the Clips series, maybe he would be passable if not for injury but I highly doubt it.

 

[LoPo]

Oh. Huh.

Yeah and really Donovan was as tall as Jordan because way back then in the yesteryears players were 5 inches shorter than they were listed at. And slow and weak. Jordan couldn't even jump as high as Donovan either. In fact in today's NBA Jordan would be lucky to be a bench player for the Kings, amirite?

Cmon man. Not what I was saying at all.

If you can't acknowledge that the game is so much faster, more skilled and more explosive then I really don't know what to tell you.



Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[One Brow]

Here's where getting another 2 way player would help his game dramastically. At the current moment I think Don has to expend so much energy on the offensive end that he can seem somewhat turned off on the defensive end (I wouldn't be shocked if this is Quin telling him to do this basically saying you have Rudy behind you save your energy because you need him to create on offense). If you have a 2nd guy who can pick up the slack on both ends he can raise that defensive energy without sacrificing too much of the energy spent on offense.

We had Bogdanovic, who was more than capable of taking some of those offensive possessions (and did so while Mitchell was out).

 

[LogGrad98]

Cmon man. Not what I was saying at all.

If you can't acknowledge that the game is so much faster, more skilled and more explosive then I really don't know what to tell you.



Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

So that's not what you were saying, then you double down on what you weren't saying.

How many points would Jordan score today with the ******** hand check rules and all the other rules favoring offensive players that didn't exist when he played?

Yes the game has changed. Jordan was a world-class athlete and the best basketball player we've ever seen. He would completely dominate today. He would adapt. If they gave him the 3, he'd improve his 3 pt shot, just like he did when he played. He's one of, if not the, most skilled players to play the game. Just like LeBron and others would adapt to the rougher more physical game of the 90s.

I'm just pointing out it's ridiculous to try to claim that everything is so much bigger/faster/stronger now that players like Jordan were not really that great because, you know, they just couldn't hang in the tough NBA of today. That just such a load of crap.

 

[LoPo]

So that's not what you were saying, then you double down on what you weren't saying.

How many points would Jordan score today with the ******** hand check rules and all the other rules favoring offensive players that didn't exist when he played?

Yes the game has changed. Jordan was a world-class athlete and the best basketball player we've ever seen. He would completely dominate today. He would adapt. If they gave him the 3, he'd improve his 3 pt shot, just like he did when he played. He's one of, if not the, most skilled players to play the game. Just like LeBron and others would adapt to the rougher more physical game of the 90s.

I'm just pointing out it's ridiculous to try to claim that everything is so much bigger/faster/stronger now that players like Jordan were not really that great because, you know, they just couldn't hang in the tough NBA of today. That just such a load of crap.

Okay, so what argument do you want to have? The one about where MJ actually was at his greatest or some hypothetical about what he would have been?

My side of the discussion is what MJ was. That's all we could really speak to. MJ, at his very peak, would not dominate today's NBA.

MJ changed the game of basketball. He was the first to consistently play his way. So as it always is, it took the league a while for the league to adjust. The league evolved from a screen and roll or postups to ISO. Back then, nobody knew how to guard MJ types. Now, you won't stay on the floor if you can't at least hold your own against MJ types. Defenders today would beg for the offensive player to try 15 foot fadeaways. Today's players are hitting 25 foot fadeaways against even better defending.

Perimeter defending was absolutely awful in his day.
Athleticism was awful in his day.
Just go watch MJ's historic 63 point game against Boston and tell me KD doesn't score 100. Don would have scored 80. The lane was wide freaking open.

I respect MJ for what he established for his 1st three peat. I absolutely loathe him for rigging the league for his 2nd three peat. I'm tired of people forcing the narrative that MJ was some sort of god. The guy was good, but players now are better.

Side Note - don't ever bring up the hand checking. They let the Pistons do it and the Pistons won two titles. Then, that summer, Chicago complained so much that MJ was never touched again. They babied him. Sure the other stars in the league dealt with "hand checks", but not MJ. Just watch the film; he pushed off way more than he ever had to deal with contact.

 

[One Brow]

My side of the discussion is what MJ was. That's all we could really speak to. MJ, at his very peak, would not dominate today's NBA.

Training and practice regimes have improved substantially over the decades. An athlete who dominated in their time, with the regimes of their time, would dominate in our time, with the regimes of our time.

 

[LoPo]

Training and practice regimes have improved substantially over the decades. An athlete who dominated in their time, with the regimes of their time, would dominate in our time, with the regimes of our time.

I disagree 100%. Would Patrick Ewing dominate in our time? Would Robert Parish be able to stay on the floor? Would Craig Ehlo even be an NBA player? Every player playing today would excel in the past. Not every player playing back then would adapt to today.

I agree that if MJ was raised in today's game, he would be a better player than he was at his peak. However, just because he would be a better version of himself doesn't guarantee that he would dominate at the same level.

The NBA today is a different game. More skilled than ever. Individuals today are so much ahead of what I watched in the late 80's and 90's. Jordan didn't face zone. He didn't face double teams and exotic rotations. It was a man to man league back then with extremely poor defending compared to today's standards. Just compare Rudy to Mark Eaton or Dikembe Mutombo. Those guys would not be NBA starters today. Role players at best. Rudy is an athletic beast and we still bash him because he struggled so much this postseason.