OFFICIAL: Utah Jazz will not offer Ty Corbin a new contract

[franklin]

DL said at the start of this season that he would judge Corbin on how well the team does defensively, and not on the W/L column. Any team can be taught to play solid defense. I'm not saying we could have been top 5 in defense, but maybe top 13 (where the Suns, who have less talent, ended up in defense). Dead last is inexcusable.

Just because someone can be taught how to play defense does not mean they will have the ability to do so. Again, Clifford is doing next to nothing on defense and his team was ranked 5th. Talent is everything in this game.

Your insistence that the Suns have less talent than the Jazz is hardly true. They have two players who are better than the best Jazz player, and both can impose their will onto opponents in the set and open court. The offensive threats they pose automatically make their defense better as the opponent has to respect their ability to run and gun, and responds by running more conservative offensive schemes. Also, when opponents have to respect your transition ability they cannot send as many offensive rebounders, and have to get back on defense instead. This had a significant impact on the Suns points allowed per 100 possessions (offensive rebounds continue the same possession).

The Jazz don't have these luxuries -- they'll improve on defense simply by getting a guy who can lead the charge and a rebounder who can outlet pass.

 

[John Crotty]

I always thought Corbin got a bad rap. His teams didn't have the talent to be where fans wanted them to be and the management handcuffed him repeatedly. Coming in last in the NBA in defense in inexcusable though, the Jazz have good enough defenders Favors, Hayward, Marvin .... that there is no reason to be that poor. That was the nail in his coffin.

 

[orangello]

Golden State stayed healthy until the very end, now the Lakers are going to jump the Jazz in the lottery. Karma is haunting the Jazz for the dirty way they did Corbin.

The fact that Corbin got a no fire guarantee to start the year and the Jazz kept to it shows that the Jazz have karma on their side. The other 29 teams in the league would have canned him before the end of November.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[Stoked]

I always thought Corbin got a bad rap. His teams didn't have the talent to be where fans wanted them to be and the management handcuffed him repeatedly. Coming in last in the NBA in defense in inexcusable though, the Jazz have good enough defenders Favors, Hayward, Marvin .... that there is no reason to be that poor. That was the nail in his coffin.

Mostly how I feel.

 

[Doublea]

I always thought Corbin got a bad rap. His teams didn't have the talent to be where fans wanted them to be and the management handcuffed him repeatedly. Coming in last in the NBA in defense in inexcusable though, the Jazz have good enough defenders Favors, Hayward, Marvin .... that there is no reason to be that poor. That was the nail in his coffin.

I think last year was his time to shine. He had a team full of talent, but couldn't figure it out.

 

[Stoked]

This. We have a bunch of young guys, with bad habits offensively and defensively. A new coach will be taking baby steps next year. Take away vets, who know how to prepare for games and be ready night in night out, and replace them with more young guys....

We won't be a lot better unless the roster is completely remade.

It could be. Half the team are free agents.

But they will take baby steps in some areas and could take big steps forward in others. Like running the O thru Burke more and reducing the point forward duties of Hayward.

Also all these bad habits on D...well Corbin has had 3 years. If the players have/still have bad habits then either Corbin couldn't reach them (bad coach) or the players were uncoachable (no reports of this).

 

[John Crotty]

I think last year was his time to shine. He had a team full of talent, but couldn't figure it out.

A team full of mehhh talent. Maybe finished a couple of games back of where they should have imo. .... but they didn't drastically under achieve.

 

[Doublea]

I thought it was interesting that Jefferson said there was a division between the young guys and the vets. Sounds like the young guys want to take over and prove something.

 

[cowhide]

Yes, within reason. Certainly if LA or Phoenix steps up and offers him a MAX contract, the Jazz would be unwise to match it. But a couple million over what they think is Hayward's worth is not a big deal, not when it's the difference between losing a lottery pick for nothing or retaining the services of a pretty good starter. The only caveat to that is if they could find a player of equal ability in the free agent market, which they won't this summer.

Why does it matter which team offers the contract? Even a few million dollars "extra" over can land a team in the Luxury tax which can lead to paying million more than you would if you are smart with your money. Besides NBA players have ego's and if you overpay for one then when the other guys come up for contract they want more. Say the Jazz give him $12 million a year and then Burk comes up for a contract and you only want to pay him say $8 million a year. Is there really a $4 million a year difference between the two. So you end up alienating the other player or even worse there isn't enough money left in the coffers to pay Burk so he goes some where else. I know this is simplistic thinking but seriously the way the luxury tax is a team has to make every penny count to avoid the luxury tax bill. Giving a player an extra million or two can come back to haunt you later.

 

[cowhide]

I thought it was interesting that Jefferson said there was a division between the young guys and the vets. Sounds like the young guys want to take over and prove something.

I am not surprised nor do I blame the young guys for being tired of the Jazz bringing in inferior players and letting the get minutes over them while the coach allows the vets to suck up the place.

 

[cowhide]

It could be. Half the team are free agents.

But they will take baby steps in some areas and could take big steps forward in others. Like running the O thru Burke more and reducing the point forward duties of Hayward.

Also all these bad habits on D...well Corbin has had 3 years. If the players have/still have bad habits then either Corbin couldn't reach them (bad coach) or the players were uncoachable (no reports of this).

You don't think Hayward, Favors, Evans and even Burks don't know their way around the league yet. Yes they are young but what are you going to wait until there 26 or so before you guys let them be in charge. After your rookie year you should understand the travel and how hard everyone works so it should be too hard of a job for most guys even young guys. The reason why you have assistant coaches are to help the players through the off the court stuff. Besides do you think guys who are 19 -22 years old want to hang out with old guys like Jefferson. Experience is great but it only goes so far, eventually a new group of players come and the vets end up retired doing commercials. You have Malone teach the kids all you want but in the end Favors and Kanter have to play and have their limits too.

 

[fishonjazz]

Your insistence that the Suns have less talent than the Jazz is hardly true.

Someone pulled up a thread a week or so ago that had us predicting the final standings in the west.... 100% chose pheonix dead last..... and bledsoe missed like 40 games

 

[JAZZGASM]

Just because someone can be taught how to play defense does not mean they will have the ability to do so. Again, Clifford is doing next to nothing on defense and his team was ranked 5th. Talent is everything in this game.

Your insistence that the Suns have less talent than the Jazz is hardly true. They have two players who are better than the best Jazz player, and both can impose their will onto opponents in the set and open court. The offensive threats they pose automatically make their defense better as the opponent has to respect their ability to run and gun, and responds by running more conservative offensive schemes. Also, when opponents have to respect your transition ability they cannot send as many offensive rebounders, and have to get back on defense instead. This had a significant impact on the Suns points allowed per 100 possessions (offensive rebounds continue the same possession).

The Jazz don't have these luxuries -- they'll improve on defense simply by getting a guy who can lead the charge and a rebounder who can outlet pass.

I used the Suns as an example of where we could have been this year. So you are saying with our current roster that we should have been the worst defensive team in the league? I have said in prior posts that the Bledsoe and Dragic are better than the Jazz counterparts. Passed that, I'd give the nod to the Jazz team across the board. I disagree that the Jazz don't have similar luxuries to the Suns (sans coaching). The Jazz have a lot of young players that have the ability to run and score on the break. Corbin didn't do have them do it it. Teams didn't respect any of his schemes. Defense can be taught. Not taking plays off can be taught. I guarantee if Sloan had coached this team they would not have been 30 of 30 in defensive ranking. Yes, you cannot teach talent, but teaching a team concept where the sum of the parts is better than the individual parts alone, That is what coaching is. And there is no excuse not to play good, solid defense. The Jazz defense this year was anything but.

You can honestly say the Jazz finished in defensive rankings where they should have?

 

[franklin]

I used the Suns as an example of where we could have been this year. So you are saying with our current roster that we should have been the worst defensive team in the league? I have said in prior posts that the Bledsoe and Dragic are better than the Jazz counterparts. Passed that, I'd give the nod to the Jazz team across the board. I disagree that the Jazz don't have similar luxuries to the Suns (sans coaching). The Jazz have a lot of young players that have the ability to run and score on the break. Corbin didn't do have them do it it. Teams didn't respect any of his schemes. Defense can be taught. Not taking plays off can be taught. I guarantee if Sloan had coached this team they would not have been 30 of 30 in defensive ranking. Yes, you cannot teach talent, but teaching a team concept where the sum of the parts is better than the individual parts alone, That is what coaching is. And there is no excuse not to play good, solid defense. The Jazz defense this year was anything but.

You can honestly say the Jazz finished in defensive rankings where they should have?

I don't have much respect for any of the Jazz main players as defenders, outside Marvin at the 3. Even Favors has been exposed for his weaknesses.

This focus everyone has on being last in defense missed the point I made about offense-defense balance. It's possible the Jazz could have improved the defensive #'s simply by running more. It's also possible they would have been much worse as they would have given up even more offensive rebounds. The Jazz were 26th in DRB's, which is attributable to not having a true stretch 4. Marvin (or Evans) were outmatched so Hayward had to stay home help on the boards. Simply replacing Marvin with a true stretch four would have cleaned up the rebounding problem and allowed Hayward to leak out, which would have led to more conservative offenses by the opponents. All that leads up to a much improved defensive team along with more exciting open court scoring.

That is something that cannot be blamed on Ty. It was purely a player issue that snowballed through the lineup and playbook.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Someone pulled up a thread a week or so ago that had us predicting the final standings in the west.... 100% chose pheonix dead last..... and bledsoe missed like 40 games

Hmmm...I pulled up an old post of my mine that said I thought Phoenix could be a surprise due to having some solid veterans. Not spectacular, but a lot who had started and/or played major minutes - as opposed to Utah with just Hayward being a starter. Never saw them as a threat to make the playoffs, but I also didn't think they were going to be one of the worst in the NBA.

Of course I also had Milwaukee as the 8th seed in the EC so what the %^$# do I know? Apparently I'm just a walking vegetable with only a rutabaga understanding of basketball fundamentals.