One thing no one is talking about re: Big Al

[b_line]

So the Jazz made it very clear that they want Millsap back, offering him the max that he could receive under the CBA in an extension. Granted, he didn't take it, because he will probably get more on the FA market. They did not offer an extension to Al Jefferson. Is this because he is not eligible for an extension? I don't know if he is or not, but his contract is expiring this year all the same. I think it is because he is not in the long term plans of the team, and they are either going to trade him, sign and trade in the off season, or let him walk.

 

[The Midnight]

I just think they're waiting to see if he can improve his play from last year. There's still so many things he can improve on:

- PnR Defense
- Being quicker when defending
- Better rebounder
- More reliable in scoring
- More reliable in the post at closing games
- Better leader on the floor

Why not keep him on his toes? We can offer him max. money anyway - so if we really need to get him we still can. I think KOC/Lindsey are trying to see what his potential is and whether he can make those improvements and take this team to the next level.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I think we'll keep Big Al beyond this season.

It's nothing to do with basketball. Business is business. He's the surest way we keep selling tickets and put bums on seats.

 

[Weezur]

https://www.hoopsworld.com/2013-nba-free-agents

According to this, Sap and Al both don't have player or team options on their contracts and the type of their contract seems to be the same. Which means if they offered Milsap an extension, they could have done it for Al as well.
My guess is that this means they wanted Milsap back and not Al.
But I can't say for sure.

 

[Stifle Tower]

https://www.hoopsworld.com/2013-nba-free-agents

According to this, Sap and Al both don't have player or team options on their contracts and the type of their contract seems to be the same. Which means if they offered Milsap an extension, they could have done it for Al as well.
My guess is that this means they wanted Milsap back and not Al.
But I can't say for sure.

My take on it is that they KNEW Millsap wouldn't accept the offer; it was way under market value. And I'm sure given Paul's agents and their lack of experience, KOC probably explained the whole thing to them about it being the max allowed under the new CBA rules. Millsap will get a nice raise from his current $8M/per. On the other hand, the Jazz may want to keep Jefferson, but feel they can get him at a lower average salary. Only way to sign him given that scenario is for himt to go out and gauge his market value. If there's a team willing to give him a raise, then say goodbye and move on. Not having a lotto pick really hurts. I know I was thinking the GS pick would be top-10, good enough to find a quality thrid big and have Paul and Al move on. Now, the Jazz likely pick in the late teens and early 20's, getting players who MIGHT become backups some day. Depressing.

 

[The Midnight]

My take on it is that they KNEW Millsap wouldn't accept the offer; it was way under market value. And I'm sure given Paul's agents and their lack of experience, KOC probably explained the whole thing to them about it being the max allowed under the new CBA rules. Millsap will get a nice raise from his current $8M/per. On the other hand, the Jazz may want to keep Jefferson, but feel they can get him at a lower average salary. Only way to sign him given that scenario is for himt to go out and gauge his market value. If there's a team willing to give him a raise, then say goodbye and move on. Not having a lotto pick really hurts. I know I was thinking the GS pick would be top-10, good enough to find a quality thrid big and have Paul and Al move on. Now, the Jazz likely pick in the late teens and early 20's, getting players who MIGHT become backups some day. Depressing.

I think it'd be hard to find any other team that would be willing to give him a raise.

I think the FO feels that $14m per year for Big Al is a bargain if he guarantees to put bums on seats for the next 4 years.

 

[mellow]

My take on it is that they KNEW Millsap wouldn't accept the offer; it was way under market value.

I thought so too. They presumed he wouldn't accept, but the Jazz would lose nothing if he did. Jazz gained a PR spin by trying. "We wanted him back and offered him the most we were allowed, it was Paul who didn't want to come back".

 

[One Brow]

They did not offer an extension to Al Jefferson. Is this because he is not eligible for an extension?

The CBA limits how much a salary can go up, or down, for an extension of a contract. Millsap is underpaid, Jefferson is overpaid. They did not offer an extension to the overpaid player, because such an extension would require us to continue to overpay him.

 

[orangello]

The CBA limits how much a salary can go up, or down, for an extension of a contract. Millsap is underpaid, Jefferson is overpaid. They did not offer an extension to the overpaid player, because such an extension would require us to continue to overpay him.

I believe that this is the most logical answer but I don't want Jefferson at all so my heart is telling me that there was no offer because they don't want him long term.

 

[b_line]

This

https://www.hoopsworld.com/2013-nba-free-agents

According to this, Sap and Al both don't have player or team options on their contracts and the type of their contract seems to be the same. Which means if they offered Milsap an extension, they could have done it for Al as well.
My guess is that this means they wanted Milsap back and not Al.
But I can't say for sure.

To me, it is obvious that they want Millsap back but not Al. Hopefully that is the case. I think that a big man rotation of Paul, Favors and Kanter would be awesome, with a young guy to work on as a project, or Marvin and Jeremy filling in at the 4 sometimes.

 

[GVC]

The CBA limits how much a salary can go up, or down, for an extension of a contract

Larry Coon's FAQ for the current CBA only states the max raise that can be given in an extension. What is the smallest amount that can be offered? Link?

With that said, veteran extensions include the remaining years on the contract, and can include raises of no more than 7.5% per season. That is, if the Jazz wanted to extend Al for less than he's currently making, he'd have had to agree to a pay cut this season.

 

[franklin]

Larry Coon's FAQ for the current CBA only states the max raise that can be given in an extension. What is the smallest amount that can be offered? Link?

Not sure the exact but there is a provision where the league pays $374,866 of a vet minimum and only $864k counts against the cap. The Jazz capologist should look into this.

 

[Weezur]

https://www.hoopsworld.com/2013-nba-free-agents

According to this, Sap and Al both don't have player or team options on their contracts and the type of their contract seems to be the same. Which means if they offered Milsap an extension, they could have done it for Al as well.
My guess is that this means they wanted Milsap back and not Al.
But I can't say for sure.

The CBA limits how much a salary can go up, or down, for an extension of a contract. Millsap is underpaid, Jefferson is overpaid. They did not offer an extension to the overpaid player, because such an extension would require us to continue to overpay him.

And there's my counter-argument. Yes- the Jazz would have been stupid salary wise to give Jefferson an extension at his price and so that doesn't necessarily mean that they don't want him back. They just don't want to pay him $15 mil.

 

[Zulu]

The jazz want Paul back only for the right price.. The extension would've been a great price for the jazz but is way low for Paul... So now they are going to let the FA market determine his price... If too high jazz will let him walk!!

If reasonable the Jazz will consider it!!

 

[One Brow]

Larry Coon's FAQ for the current CBA only states the max raise that can be given in an extension. What is the smallest amount that can be offered? Link?

Check answer #53 of the Larry Coon's FAQ.

 

[Mr. McGibblets]

Check answer #53 of the Larry Coon's FAQ.

That's referring to contracts like Millsap's which decrease from the first year base salary. It does not limit the ability of a team to offer a new contract to a player at a lower value. Otherwise vets like T-Mac would never be in the league again after getting max deals once they peak out.

Maybe this is what you were referring to, but an extension with Jefferson could decrease to the minimum if Jefferson and the Jazz agreed to it. There's nothing limiting it so that Al can only sign a new contract or extension 4.5% or 7.5% below his current one. Unless I'm completely misreading it - https://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q53

 

[franklin]

I've asked Larry Coon under my handle. He may or may not answer on Feb. 8th.

For a veteran with a contract like Al Jefferson, are there limitations to contract extensions at a lower salary similar to extension raises being capped at 107.5%?

https://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-salary-cap-chat-with-larry-coon-2813/#comment-67299

 

[One Brow]

It does not limit the ability of a team to offer a new contract to a player at a lower value.

Maybe this is what you were referring to, but an extension with Jefferson could decrease to the minimum if Jefferson and the Jazz agreed to it.

Perhaps you should consider more carefully the difference between "offer a new contract" and "an extension" (of the same contract). I agreed with everything you said, and understood it the same way you wrote it, except for the conflation of those two concepts.

 

[Scorpjazz]

The first sentence is false, so I stopped there. They offered KNOWING he would turn it down. They had NO intention of him signing that. They just wanted to be able to say later on when and if he left that they tried, to soothe the Sap lovers that might revolt.

 

[GVC]

The CBA limits how much a salary can go up, or down, for an extension of a contract. Millsap is underpaid, Jefferson is overpaid. They did not offer an extension to the overpaid player, because such an extension would require us to continue to overpay him.

Link? Again, I'm not seeing where this is explicitly stated in Larry Coon's FAQ. He lists a max (107.5% of the previous salary), but no min.

 

[GVC]

I think it's likely the minimum the Jazz can give in an extension is 7.5% less than he's making this season. The FAQ is poorly written/worded, and doesn't explicitly rule out the remaining years on a contract being amended. This downward amending doesn't really make sense though. If the 7.5% decrease is the rule, Al's salary next season could be no less than $13.875mm in an extension. Too much.

#59 also, indirectly, clears this up, stating that player salaries can't be amended downward in contract renegotiations.