Paul George or Gordon Hayward
- Thread starter Basketball_Romantic23
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Gyp Rosetti
Banned
Uh, yes, average. If you think Hill and Stephenson aren't below average, you're freakin' high. West is average or slightly above at the 4 and Hibbert is solid. Their bench is meh. Get a ****ing clue Dalamon.
MVP
Well-Known Member
Definitely a huge gap. Not to mention his 58 games as a starter last season.
Keep failing.
oh, nice to see you dalamon.. It looked very familiar the way you defend your golden boy. The gap indeed is real and needs to be taken into account.
Goerge is better player, period. You can argue all you want, nothing is going to change. And it is not only me or Gyp, ESPN, other media and coaches of NBA teams think that way to. Go and complain to NBA that George is not deserving his ALL star spot.
I voted equal, but that is probably just me being a homer. George is better, but I still think Hayward is the more versatile offensive player. I view neither as legitimate 1st options and don't think either has super star potential.
Stephenson, yeah below average.
Hill? He is a pretty above average combo guard. I would love for him to be on the jazz.
George
Banned
1) Not Dalamon
2) Stephenson is obviously below average. However, if you had enough brain cells to bust out a Stephenson profile with a game log, you would discover that a) he's YOUNG, and b) He has been steadily improving. He also plays well within that team, rebounds decently for a combo, and has been progressing nicely. Nothing wrong with him as a fifth option
3) George Hill below average?? How many point guards are averaging 15/4/4 right now in the NBA (while playing exceptional defense, mind you)? More than 15? Start naming please.
4) LOLOLOLOL @ probably the top-3 all star snub being an "average" PF. Heres a question for you: How many power forwards are currently logging more APG than West? 2. West is out passing Duncan, scoring 0.4 less than George (@ a higher percentage), and is obviously the focal point of the Pacer offense. Go read a Pacers forum/watch their games if you don't believe me. West is only being outscored by Duncan (by 0.1), Lee, Aldridge, and Griffin in terms of NBA Pfs per their website. So tell me how this is average please. Please name 14 PFs that you could swap with West into the Pacers, and tell me that their record would be maintained.
Or you could watch the Pacers more than 2 times a season.
George
Banned
The best part of Gyp's assessment is what he thinks of Hibbert
especially when he talks about Hill and West being average, with Hibbert as solid.
It is blatantly obvious that you have not seen the Pacers play this season.
Hibbert is one step away from being played off the bench. No, I am not kidding. Hibbert has been a flop all season long.
especially when he talks about Hill and West being average, with Hibbert as solid.
It is blatantly obvious that you have not seen the Pacers play this season.
Hibbert is one step away from being played off the bench. No, I am not kidding. Hibbert has been a flop all season long.
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
1) Okay.
2) Thank you for noting LS is below average.
3) Someone has to put up numbers on their team. Hill is perhaps better than I stated. But you are crazy if you think he represents great talent in this league. Other point guards in this league who virtually anyone would prefer over GH include Paul, Rondo, Westbrook, Irving, Rose, Deron, Parker, Curry, and Lillard, as well as Lawson, Teague, Rubio, Holiday, Jennings, and Nash, in different ways depending on the situation.
4) David West is in a contract year. What's he done the rest of his career? Thank you for helping my cause by stating that Hibbert's been mediocre.
So let's recap. You admit LS is below average and Hibbert's been mediocre so excluding George, that leaves West and Hill to round out their starting five. And those two are FAR from superb talent. Add in a mediocre bench and yes, their talent is meh.
orangello
Well-Known Member
This.
George
Banned
Lets properly recap.
1) I say the Pacers are one of the most well-rounded teams in the NBA-- NOT the most talented. I then cited their defense, and passing proficiency (particularly their defense). They are well rounded because they have no defensive weakness. They play amazing as a team. Their defense is precisely why they are doing so well (see their offensive numbers if you don't believe me)
Hence, I don't take back anything I said. In fact, I'm still waiting for you to tell me how they are NOT one of the most well-rounded teams in the NBA. Individual player talent does not equal team performance
2) you say George Hill is below average-- then you backtrack
3) you say West is average. When proven that he isn't, you then say he is on his contract year. Sadly Gyp, we are not talking about prospects here. We are talking about 2012-2013 performance. But a well-veiled backtrack nonetheless.
4) you then say Hibbert has been solid, when he is probably the main reason for Indiana's offensive woes this season, other than having a player with excess shot attempts shooting 42%.
5) you rightly peg Stephenson as a below average talent. Congrats.
None of what you has said has disproved my initial point. West has been their best player, and this teams defensive cohesiveness (spearheaded by West and George) has made this team considerably well-rounded, and a threat league-wide on any given night.
But sure. Keep analyzing off of your 2 game sample that you've seen the Pacers play
As always
Winner:
-George
1) I say the Pacers are one of the most well-rounded teams in the NBA-- NOT the most talented. I then cited their defense, and passing proficiency (particularly their defense). They are well rounded because they have no defensive weakness. They play amazing as a team. Their defense is precisely why they are doing so well (see their offensive numbers if you don't believe me)
Hence, I don't take back anything I said. In fact, I'm still waiting for you to tell me how they are NOT one of the most well-rounded teams in the NBA. Individual player talent does not equal team performance
2) you say George Hill is below average-- then you backtrack
3) you say West is average. When proven that he isn't, you then say he is on his contract year. Sadly Gyp, we are not talking about prospects here. We are talking about 2012-2013 performance. But a well-veiled backtrack nonetheless.
4) you then say Hibbert has been solid, when he is probably the main reason for Indiana's offensive woes this season, other than having a player with excess shot attempts shooting 42%.
5) you rightly peg Stephenson as a below average talent. Congrats.
None of what you has said has disproved my initial point. West has been their best player, and this teams defensive cohesiveness (spearheaded by West and George) has made this team considerably well-rounded, and a threat league-wide on any given night.
But sure. Keep analyzing off of your 2 game sample that you've seen the Pacers play
As always
Winner:
-George
Julie Greengiant
Well-Known Member
Yeah David West is the best player on the Pacers. They would not be playing very well without him. He's also the leader of that team so
George can put up a great stat line but he's still very inconsistent. I think people see "All-star" and immediately overrate him. Also athleticism does not automatically mean "more potential."
George can put up a great stat line but he's still very inconsistent. I think people see "All-star" and immediately overrate him. Also athleticism does not automatically mean "more potential."
Yeah, but when you're athletic, can shoot, can defend, can rebound, can pass, that does.
The only thing George really can't do that well, which is what holds him back from being a superstar, is ball-handling and getting to the rim in the half-court.
Julie Greengiant
Well-Known Member
I think that's how people's brains work though. They see his athleticism and start salivating. That's why I don't buy the claim that his potential is so much higher than Hayward's. They do very similar things and Gordon is no slouch athletically. He doesn't posses that freakish length though which is something.
Come on man, this isn't fair to Hayward. Replace the East with the West and Indiana is hard pressed for higher than a sixth seed. Replace Jefferson and Sap with Hibbert and West (upgrades at both) and the Jazz would be hard pressed to finish lower than sixth, with a meaningful argument for the Clippers' seed.
I don't know if you're taking the opposite exteme for entertainment value or what, but you're making the kid out to be Kevin Durant. He's good, no doubt, but he also shoots 43% on high volume.
The biggest thing that keeps George/Hayward close for me is that Hayward nearly doubles George's FT attempts per48 minutes. If George could get on Hayward's level of foul drawing, he might be able to cross into the legitimate 1st option level.
But then again, George probably doesn't go to the line as much because he doesn't leak out on fastbreaks because HE ACTUALLY REBOUNDS.
jimmy eat jazz
Well-Known Member
Oh my God, this is turning into the Dwill vs. CP3 debate all over again. I really like Hayward, and think his potential is substantial (Corbin playing him behind Foye and giving him only 20 some odd minutes a game is my #1 frustration with the Jazz this year), but at this point, I don't think there's really much a debate, George has shown himself to be the better overall player. This may change in the future, but given a choice, all else equal, I take George.
