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Perhaps this is the defining moment for Hayward

jimmy eat jazz said:
Have I said anything that would lead you to conclude I thought this?

Otherwise, I think the answer is obvious.
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Ya well purple kept bringing up his pouting while you continued to ignore that part of peoples posts
 
fishonjazz said:
Ya well purple kept bringing up his pouting while you continued to ignore that part of peoples posts
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My initial post is found on the second page on this thread, and my quick scan of the posts to that point don't reveal much discussions about pouting, which seem to have occurred only after I asked how you defined toughness.

I've no problem with a definition of toughness that excludes a tendency to pout.
 
jimmy eat jazz said:
My initial post is found on the second page on this thread, and my quick scan of the posts to that point don't reveal much discussions about pouting, which seem to have occurred only after I asked how you defined toughness.

I've no problem with a definition of toughness that excludes a tendency to pout.
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Others spoke of head-hanging and getting down on himself (forms off pouting imo)

Glad we are on the same page now though..... We all agree that Haywards pouting is a sign of lacking toughness
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Are you a leader? Clearly no, because I just asked you if you were and that means you do not pass your litmus test. Is Obama a leader? Clearly no, because he has also been asked. Are there any leaders in this world? I guess so, because there are all sorts of wimps and babies who have never been asked that magic question, but the leaders are obviously not the ones who have attempted to step into leadership positions, because they have almost undoubtedly been asked your magical leadership erasing question at some point in their careers.
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You must have fallen into a field of straw.
 
fishonjazz said:
We all agree that Haywards pouting is a sign of lacking toughness
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I don't even agree that he pouts. People here like to pretend they know what the players are thinking. They look at a player's mannerisms on the court and try to interpret them or "read between the lines". Hayward drops his head sometimes. Doesn't mean he's pouting. Any player with pride gets down on themselves from time to time when they don't perform to their own expectations. It's pretty common actually, and players exhibit disappointment or frustration in different ways. It's how they respond to those moments that defines them. Hayward isn't Harpring, but I don't think he lacks toughness. FWIW I don't think Stockton would have responded any differently to Delonte West and he was one of the toughest guys who ever played. And spell check shouldn't underline Harpring on a Jazz site.
 
My2Cents said:
I don't even agree that he pouts. People here like to pretend they know what the players are thinking. They look at a player's mannerisms on the court and try to interpret them or "read between the lines". Hayward drops his head sometimes. Doesn't mean he's pouting. Any player with pride gets down on themselves from time to time when they don't perform to their own expectations. It's pretty common actually, and players exhibit disappointment or frustration in different ways. It's how they respond to those moments that defines them. Hayward isn't Harpring, but I don't think he lacks toughness. FWIW I don't think Stockton would have responded any differently to Delonte West and he was one of the toughest guys who ever played. And spell check shouldn't underline Harpring on a Jazz site.
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I agree
 
My2Cents said:
FWIW I don't think Stockton would have responded any differently to Delonte West and he was one of the toughest guys who ever played. And spell check shouldn't underline Harpring on a Jazz site.
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On the next play Stockton would crack Delante's ribs if only Malone wouldn't get his elbows first on him. That's where difference is.
 
zbone said:
On the next play Stockton would crack Delante's ribs if only Malone wouldn't get his elbows first on him. That's where difference is.
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In Stockton and Malone's day, it wouldn't get them a season long suspension. Really bad comparison. Just because you don't cripple another person for a chump move doesn't make you soft. In fact, it makes you tough, mentally tough, which is the most important kind. This is also a sign of leadership, because he's leading by example and teaching his teammates to rise above immaturity by giving in to their attempt to get in your head.

All of this talk of leadership is ridiculous. The Jazz are being built to lead by committee, a la some of the most successful teams of the last fifteen years. You don't need one guy to take over everything to become leaders, you need good players that compliment each other, get others involved, and lead by example. Hayward does all of those things. He doesn't need to be our one and only leader to earn his money.
 
My2Cents said:
FWIW I don't think Stockton would have responded any differently to Delonte West and he was one of the toughest guys who ever played.
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No effing way...Stockton may have been a quiet person but he didn't take **** from anyone. But nice try in attempting to justify Hayward's pussiness.

Watch the 0:15 mark...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W25t7wXLVfw
 
Dtol17 said:
In Stockton and Malone's day, it wouldn't get them a season long suspension. Really bad comparison. Just because you don't cripple another person for a chump move doesn't make you soft. In fact, it makes you tough, mentally tough, which is the most important kind. This is also a sign of leadership, because he's leading by example and teaching his teammates to rise above immaturity by giving in to their attempt to get in your head.

All of this talk of leadership is ridiculous. The Jazz are being built to lead by committee, a la some of the most successful teams of the last fifteen years. You don't need one guy to take over everything to become leaders, you need good players that compliment each other, get others involved, and lead by example. Hayward does all of those things. He doesn't need to be our one and only leader to earn his money.
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I'm sorry but I think standing up for yourself and your teammates shows leadership. Walking away from contact or allowing others to bully you and humiliate you on the court without doing anything is a sign of weakness. I'm also sure that Ostertag didn't earn any respect either when he was bitch slapped by Shaq. It more or less showed he is afraid and will back down from contact in my opinion.


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akirac73 said:
No effing way...Stockton may have been a quiet person but he didn't take **** from anyone. But nice try in attempting to justify Hayward's pussiness.

Watch the 0:15 mark...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W25t7wXLVfw
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Did you watch the whole video? Stockton apologizes for reacting that was saying it is not his character.
 
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