Please read this! SLC Dunk- Black Lives Matter

Ostertag>Duncan

My Members Premium
Contributor
2019 Award Winner
First, antifa are not in an organized group with organized goals. As Snopes recently put it, all they really have in common as a group is opposing fascism, usually by opposing state violence and discrimination.

Many are aggressive, and they to not swear to non-violence. However, almost always when there is violence, antifa are acting as a responder or protector, not an instigator.
Yeah I'm going to need a fact check on this. There's plenty of evidence including video to the contrary.
 

One Brow

Well-Known Member
Don't be daft. In response to this:
"There are over 330 million people in the United States. Let's say 5% have racist tendencies...that's about 16.5 million people."
You purport "Racist tendencies" would be close to 95%."
Are you not implying 95% of the population has a racist disposition? Pretty ****ing racist dude.
1) If anything, 95% would be low.
2)"tendencies" =/= "disposition".
3) If I'm saying something is true of everyone, how does that become racist, in your mind?

That said, light-skin preference stretches across the entire cultural landscape of the US (and many other countries).

I've seen you discuss the "Power Hierarchy" several times in the past, you know exactly what I mean.
Sure, but how can I place anyone in the heirarchy? I mean, I can approximately identify where people rank; that's something everyone does based not only on skin color, but also gender, height, age, vocal timbre, symmetry, and at least a dozen other attributes; it's something we do automatically in every social interaction. But I don't place people anywhere.

Also what did you imply by this?
I implied that I understood your place in the hierarchy and I understood why you would not want to lose it.

WOW you sure read that fast, impressive.
Don't recall where, but I've seen that link before. I doubt it changed much over a week or two.

Yeah I'm going to need a fact check on this. There's plenty of evidence including video to the contrary.
You weren't very specific on what you have seen the contrary to. If is was "However, almost always when there is violence, antifa are acting as a responder or protector, not an instigator.", the very inclusion of "almost" means there will be the occasional exception. So, I'm sure there is video evidence of some antifa attacking unprovoked. There is also a lot of video evidence claiming antifa attacked unprovoked, but then more extensive footage, more detailed information, or a different angle shows provocation.

I don't think antifa are angels, though. They're kids (or young adults) who accept using violence as tool, and that means that sometimes they'll go too far.
 

Lakers_Slapper

Well-Known Member
Where to begin? It's apparent that there's a lot of people that don't understand "black lives matter". So many take the defensive "all lives matter" statement. Of course all lives matter, that belief doesn't have to contradic the "black lives matter" movement. It's not about choosing one or the other. It's about understanding what black lives matter is all about.
When your white its easy to not understand the BLM movement . It's easy to state All Lives Matter and think that your doing no harm to BLM because your obviously in support of All lives Matter, and how can anyone think that the statement "all lives matter" is offensive?
Here's what many don't understand about BLM. If your white, your life has always mattered. Its easy to state all lives matter, because your life always has and it has to be about you. Understand that our black community isn only asking for their lives to matter in the same way that yours has since day one.
Supporting black lives matter isn't saying that you believe that all lives don't matter. Its saying that you support that their life means as much as yours always has.
BLM movement is something that doesn't deserve controversy if white people would take the time to understand it.
 

DasJazz

Well-Known Member
Where to begin? It's apparent that there's a lot of people that don't understand "black lives matter". So many take the defensive "all lives matter" statement. Of course all lives matter, that belief doesn't have to contradic the "black lives matter" movement. It's not about choosing one or the other. It's about understanding what black lives matter is all about.
When your white its easy to not understand the BLM movement . It's easy to state All Lives Matter and think that your doing no harm to BLM because your obviously in support of All lives Matter, and how can anyone think that the statement "all lives matter" is offensive?
Here's what many don't understand about BLM. If your white, your life has always mattered. Its easy to state all lives matter, because your life always has and it has to be about you. Understand that our black community isn only asking for their lives to matter in the same way that yours has since day one.
Supporting black lives matter isn't saying that you believe that all lives don't matter. Its saying that you support that their life means as much as yours always has.
BLM movement is something that doesn't deserve controversy if white people would take the time to understand it.
So let's do an experiment.

If one type of people in one year is killed 19 times in total but another type of people is killed only 9 times in that same span under similar circumstances, which one deserves more attention for "not mattering"?
 

Hekate

Well-Known Member
So let's do an experiment.

If one type of people in one year is killed 19 times in total but another type of people is killed only 9 times in that same span under similar circumstances, which one deserves more attention for "not mattering"?
Out of how many?
 

DasJazz

Well-Known Member
Out of how many?
Well all I can tell you is that there are far less of the people in the "19" category than there are of the "9".

Again, same basic circumstances, one was killed at more than double the rate of the other.
 

Hekate

Well-Known Member
Well all I can tell you is that there are far less of the people in the "19" category than there are of the "9".

Again, same basic circumstances, one was killed at more than double the rate of the other.
Are you taking "crimes" like jaywalking or loitering or being suspicious into consideration here?
 

DasJazz

Well-Known Member
I never even came close to calling you a racist. Not even close. I also didn't discount you helping people, but I don't consider employing people to be "helping" them. It's a business arrangement in which both parties should benefit. Please don't pat yourself on the back as some sort of philanthropist because you hire people. Capitalism is not charity and it shouldn't be. You, as an employer, should gain more from needing to hire people to make it possible for you to make more money than they should be able to make from you in payroll. If you're paying your employees more than they allow you to increase profits then you'll eventually go out of business. So it's sort of a known deal, the employee works for you for a guaranteed income. It's predictable, stable, and if the employee doesn't like it or has a better opportunity they can take their talents to another employer. But the employer should always be making more money from the work their employees do than they pay those employees. If they don't they are capitalism-ing wrong. So don't pretend you're doing people favors. Don't pat yourself on the back as if you did an act of charity. That's insulting to the people who give their time, their skill and their labor to you for a portion of the money you make off of it.
Never considered it charity, nor did I pat myself on the back about it. I consider my actions something that betters each individual and their respective communities in the long run. As I said before, I came from very poor and humble beginnings and a lot of these people were too. Now, they are able to not only take care of themselves better but help their communities out as well as we are huge into community outreach and volunteering.

My favorite thing in the world is when I used to get visited (newly retired) by these young men and women at my spoke office and they tell me about all of the great things that they have accomplished and I always encourage them to always be better tomorrow than they were today. That is my individual challenge to each of them, and I think in most cases, these wonderful individuals take it to heart and strive for greatness.
 

Thee Idiotic Minivan K

Well-Known Member
Never considered it charity, nor did I pat myself on the back about it. I consider my actions something that betters each individual and their respective communities in the long run. As I said before, I came from very poor and humble beginnings and a lot of these people were too. Now, they are able to not only take care of themselves better but help their communities out as well as we are huge into community outreach and volunteering.

My favorite thing in the world is when I used to get visited (newly retired) by these young men and women at my spoke office and they tell me about all of the great things that they have accomplished and I always encourage them to always be better tomorrow than they were today. That is my individual challenge to each of them, and I think in most cases, these wonderful individuals take it to heart and strive for greatness.
So I must owe every employer I’ve ever had a thank you? After they thank me for wanting to work for and making him or her money.
 

silesian

Well-Known Member
So I must owe every employer I’ve ever had a thank you? After they thank me for wanting to work for and making him or her money.
I kinda sorta agree with this.

Gratefulness should not be owed but just given when it is authentically felt between people. So if an owner or a boss or a colleague took the time to help you and be supportive, a thank you seems nice.

However, between you and the company who employs you, you are providing them a service that creates value for them and they are putting money in your pocket. I pride myself in creating value far beyond my salary, so I'm not going to bitch about that. It is part of negotiations for raises and incentive compensation, etc.
 

silesian

Well-Known Member
When your white its easy to not understand the BLM movement . It's easy to state All Lives Matter and think that your doing no harm to BLM because your obviously in support of All lives Matter, and how can anyone think that the statement "all lives matter" is offensive?
If after the bombing, someone were to say to you "Boston Strong!" would you be supportive and retweet this, expressing empathy towards the suffering and loss, or would you respond by saying "All Cities are Strong!" and list how other cities have had similar pain? Most humans would do the former. Some may understandably interpret and "All" as petty and jealous, questioning why Boston gets special treatment. The clear implication is "you're not so special"

If my daughter comes up to me and says "I'm really sad because I did not win in gymnastics, I tell her I understand why she would be sad and ask her how I can support her. I don't respond by saying "there are a thousands of athletes around the world who did not win"
 

AlaskanAssassin

Well-Known Member
If my daughter comes up to me and says "I'm really sad because I did not win in gymnastics, I tell her I understand why she would be sad and ask her how I can support her. I don't respond by saying "there are a thousands of athletes around the world who did not win"
So we need to treat the BLM movement the same way we would treat a small child?

Instead of providing information, statistics, and perspective, we are supposed to purely tend to the emotional needs of a specific group?
 

One Brow

Well-Known Member
So we need to treat the BLM movement the same way we would treat a small child?

Instead of providing information, statistics, and perspective, we are supposed to purely tend to the emotional needs of a specific group?
So, responding to suffering with empathy is too hard for you?
 

AlaskanAssassin

Well-Known Member
Has anyone listed to the recent Joe Rogan podcast with Bret Weinstein? Bret has some excellent insight and thoughts on BLM, and the general state of our country. He makes a lot of connections to what is currently brewing in the USA to the beginnings of the Cultural Revolution in China. If you have never read about what happened during the Cultural Revolution, I would highly recommend it. There are eerie similarities between what is happening now in our country. Very insightful and I'd recommend giving the podcast a listen if you have time. I've always liked listening to Bret Weinstein, as he is a very progressive person but manages to stay grounded in reality regarding what the many things great about our country (freedom of speech, civil liberties, intellectualism, etc). He proposed an interesting idea of electing a center left and center right person to serve as President and Vice President (Andrew Yang and William McRaven).

He criticizes BLM (for a variety of reasons), while also acknowledging that major government efforts need to be made to help uplift Black communities to help free them from the poverty.

One point he made, that I thought was spot-on, related to the issues that stem from mass-incarceration occurring in our country. He makes this point as an evolutionary biologist, which of course I am not, but I'll try to paraphrase. Essentially, because our country has such an aggressive approach to incarcerating people, and because that incarceration naturally will have a greater impact on impoverished groups (Black Men), this leads to higher instances of single motherhood in the Black community. Not only that, he points out that when males are removed from a group of mammals, the remaining males are much less likely to settle with a permanent mate due to their high demand. Thus, this leads to extremely high single motherhood rates for Black women (75% ish). As being raised in a two-family household is one of the key indicators to avoid poverty (along with finishing high school and avoiding pregnancy before marriage), the cycle repeats itself.

In other words. We need to stop incarcerating such a high percentage of our citizens if we truly want to get people out of poverty, specifically Black Americans.
 
Top