Point Guard Situation

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yes, I did not see him lead 4 fast breaks, one for sure. What I am talking about is not when there is a clear open fast break but the ones where the d is partially back but if you push it you can get something easier than a set offense. TB never does that. Not sure that he can. If YOU think he is not slow for his position, then you maybe are not watching.

I watch them all... he is not fast and I never said that. You cited not pushing the pace... leading fast breaks is pushing the pace. If you are talking about getting secondary breaks then be more specific... not sure Neto did that either.

i just think trading Burke right now would be a terrible idea... for what? I like Cotton's prospects as much as the next guy, but there is no reason not to keep all 3. What if he limits the terrible shooting nights? He is not a good defender, but he is nowhere near as bad as Kanter. There is no rush for a Burke trade and tbh there is only downside. If someone offered a first for him then great.

Neto looked good, but I think most of his steals came against Jabari Brown... I'd like to see a bit more before I declare Neto to be the Brazilian Stockton.

 

[seattlejazzfan]

Neto had 6 assists in 20 minutes. Burke had 3 in roughly the same amount of time. Forget about the defense where Neto is on another level, as long as Neto gets the ball to guys where they can score, he's the one. Now to HH's point, it's just one game and even after tonight we may be singing a different tune. Should be fun to watch the PG situation develop.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Neto had 6 assists in 20 minutes. Burke had 3 in roughly the same amount of time. Forget about the defense where Neto is on another level, as long as Neto gets the ball to guys where they can score, he's the one. Now to HH's point, it's just one game and even after tonight we may be singing a different tune. Should be fun to watch the PG situation develop.

I definitely think Neto was better on night one, but Burke wasn't nearly as bad as people are declaring. We will need them both in all likelihood. If he hits one of those threes then he has 13 pts. on 4/9 shooting. Burke isn't a good shooter, but even he will do better than 0/4 on a nightly basis. He fell back into some of his old habits a couple times, but I see effort to improve. Move him to the 2nd unit and he may view it as a license to chuck.

 

[zman1527]

I watch them all... he is not fast and I never said that. You cited not pushing the pace... leading fast breaks is pushing the pace. If you are talking about getting secondary breaks then be more specific... not sure Neto did that either.

i just think trading Burke right now would be a terrible idea... for what? I like Cotton's prospects as much as the next guy, but there is no reason not to keep all 3. What if he limits the terrible shooting nights? He is not a good defender, but he is nowhere near as bad as Kanter. There is no rush for a Burke trade and tbh there is only downside. If someone offered a first for him then great.

Neto looked good, but I think most of his steals came against Jabari Brown... I'd like to see a bit more before I declare Neto to be the Brazilian Stockton.

I am not one suggesting that they trade right now and I agree that would be a mistake. I think at a minimum they need to wait to feel comfortable the Exum is going to recover okay and that Neto can indeed play at this level. Cotton I like and is promising but he too is unproven. I suspect Trey likely stays at least until the trade deadline, at which point some of those questions are likely answered sufficiently.

 

[Douchebag K]

I definitely think Neto was better on night one, but Burke wasn't nearly as bad as people are declaring. We will need them both in all likelihood. If he hits one of those threes then he has 13 pts. on 4/9 shooting. Burke isn't a good shooter, but even he will do better than 0/4 on a nightly basis. He fell back into some of his old habits a couple times, but I see effort to improve. Move him to the 2nd unit and he may view it as a license to chuck.

So by your description he isn't a good shooter nor is he a good defender ... Not really starting PG material

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

So by your description he isn't a good shooter nor is he a good defender ... Not really starting PG material

Obviously it's not ideal, but he is better or could be better than the other stuff out there. I think he could prove to be better than most are making him out to be. There is no benefit to dumping him for nothing, especially when it is a somewhat proven rule that PGs really show what they've got in year 3. We are here so we might as well see what we've got.

 

[Ellipse]

I definitely think Neto was better on night one, but Burke wasn't nearly as bad as people are declaring. We will need them both in all likelihood. If he hits one of those threes then he has 13 pts. on 4/9 shooting. Burke isn't a good shooter, but even he will do better than 0/4 on a nightly basis. He fell back into some of his old habits a couple times, but I see effort to improve. Move him to the 2nd unit and he may view it as a license to chuck.

Yeah, like 1/9. Now I don't think Burke played poorly in Sunday's game, but one quarter of good play doesn't erase two years of "old habits" and poor shooting. The hurdle is set high for Burke because he set it there with his own track record. Neto's 0/3 shows smarts that Burke never gets: when it ain't falling, quit shooting.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah, like 1/9. Now I don't think Burke played poorly in Sunday's game, but one quarter of good play doesn't erase two years of "old habits" and poor shooting. The hurdle is set high for Burke because he set it there with his own track record. Neto's 0/3 shows smarts that Burke never gets: when it ain't falling, quit shooting.

He shot around 30% from 3 so he doesn't go 1/9 every night... Just like Hood won't go 1/9 every night like he did on Sunday. He shot less in Sunday's game than he did on average last season. He got to the line 4 times. I don't expect him to turn into Chris Paul, but could he turn into a serviceable NBA point guard... YES!

Neto also didn't stop shooting... he never started. He is likely more self aware than Burke though yes. He is highly entertaining and I am absolutely rooting for him. He hasn't done enough for me to just dismiss Burke though, which is what I was responding to originally.

I love the idea of Neto... I hope he meets our new higher expectations, but he also has a history as a bad shooter... not in the NBA, but against lesser competition.

Burke has been frustrating, but if he moves the ball quicker and shoots better shots then he is a decent player. Those are both things he can improve upon.

 

[da ThRONe]

Neto had 6 assists in 20 minutes. Burke had 3 in roughly the same amount of time. Forget about the defense where Neto is on another level, as long as Neto gets the ball to guys where they can score, he's the one. Now to HH's point, it's just one game and even after tonight we may be singing a different tune. Should be fun to watch the PG situation develop.

Burke pass to a wide open Burks who passed up on the shot and drove in the first half, a pass to Gobert that lead to a foul to prevent a dunk, and a wide open mid range shot for Favors that just didn't go in. Those were 3 chances at assist Burke was essentially robbed of. If those things go different that's 6 assist. It's easy to just look at a box score and compare, but that's not always telling.

 

[Douchebag K]

Burke pass to a wide open Burks who passed up on the shot and drove in the first half, a pass to Gobert that lead to a foul to prevent a dunk, and a wide open mid range shot for Favors that just didn't go in. Those were 3 chances at assist Burke was essentially robbed of. If those things go different that's 6 assist. It's easy to just look at a box score and compare, but that's not always telling.

you sound like Rhonda

 

[Getting Traded]

Burke supporters keep saying he's going to change, but he doesn't. We've been talking about his bad habits for two years now and he hasn't broken them. Maybe it's prudent to keep him awhile because of the situation, but I just don't have any faith that he will ever change his ways and be the guy we need.

 

[Siro]

Burke pass to a wide open Burks who passed up on the shot and drove in the first half, a pass to Gobert that lead to a foul to prevent a dunk, and a wide open mid range shot for Favors that just didn't go in. Those were 3 chances at assist Burke was essentially robbed of. If those things go different that's 6 assist. It's easy to just look at a box score and compare, but that's not always telling.

And Neto's passes were all converted?

 

[fishonjazz]

Burke pass to a wide open Burks who passed up on the shot and drove in the first half, a pass to Gobert that lead to a foul to prevent a dunk, and a wide open mid range shot for Favors that just didn't go in. Those were 3 chances at assist Burke was essentially robbed of. If those things go different that's 6 assist. It's easy to just look at a box score and compare, but that's not always telling.

This happens every game to every player though.
Alec had multiple assists taken away due to poor play/shooting by teammates. (One of them when he found a wide open trey burke for three and trey bricked it)

 

[JAZZGASM]

Burke supporters keep saying he's going to change, but he doesn't. We've been talking about his bad habits for two years now and he hasn't broken them. Maybe it's prudent to keep him awhile because of the situation, but I just don't have any faith that he will ever change his ways and be the guy we need.

We need a short bus to remove the Burke apologists out of the forum.

 

[zman1527]

Burke pass to a wide open Burks who passed up on the shot and drove in the first half, a pass to Gobert that lead to a foul to prevent a dunk, and a wide open mid range shot for Favors that just didn't go in. Those were 3 chances at assist Burke was essentially robbed of. If those things go different that's 6 assist. It's easy to just look at a box score and compare, but that's not always telling.

Half of all shots are missed so half of all potential assists fail.

 

[da ThRONe]

This happens every game to every player though.
Alec had multiple assists taken away due to poor play/shooting by teammates. (One of them when he found a wide open trey burke for three and trey bricked it)

Which is my point. You can't just look at the box score and say player Y had assist had X assist therefore he did or didn't do a good job getting teammates involved especially when we are talking about one preseason game.

 

[da ThRONe]

And Neto's passes were all converted?

Not the point. He's using assist in one preseason game to say one player isn't doing enough.

 

[da ThRONe]

Burke supporters keep saying he's going to change, but he doesn't. We've been talking about his bad habits for two years now and he hasn't broken them. Maybe it's prudent to keep him awhile because of the situation, but I just don't have any faith that he will ever change his ways and be the guy we need.

Saying he has or hasn't changed after one preseason game is just showing obvious bias against Burke.

 

[Siro]

Not the point. He's using assist in one preseason game to say one player isn't doing enough.

I agree about the sample size, but why bring up that silliness about passes failing to convert at all?

 

[seattlejazzfan]

Not the point. He's using assist in one preseason game to say one player isn't doing enough.

Read the entire post for crying out loud. I acknowledged that it was just one game and even said after tonight we could be saying an entirely different thing. smh