Poll: Should the Jazz Match Hayward's $15.75 a year/4 year Contract?

[framer]

The way I look at this year's situation is this one:

If the Heat win, LeBron doesn't opt out and the rest of Big2 + kneejerk Wade do neither. Heat looked vulnerable all year long, suitors were getting in position.

If Dolan doesn't sink the ship, goes from hero to zero, Melo waits until next summer to recruit a competitive team for NY(This is a very unsafe assumption. He's clearly in love with $ so this is an opinion that's very debatable IMO, but there is a chance that he falls in love with winning if this year doesn't go wrong)

The Suns are projected to win single digit games and sniff on the 8 seed. That creates another buyer.

Toronto tries to blow up the team, tank for Wiggins by trading Gay only to create a highly efficient squad. If they tank successfully midseason, Lowry is another guy on the open market. So is Patterson and Vasquez and DeRozan is getting shopped instead of Toronto being a shopper.

As a consequence from LeBron opting out and Cleveland lucking the lottery, we have another free agency player who wanna exceed the cap next year with the Irving extension and utilize tzheir cap space this summer. They become an extra shopper.

Detroit gives SVG full control, he becomes a shopper.

With all the other teams struggling, Charlotte looks like they're a real team. They become a shopper instead of eternal rebuilder.

Atlanta has some pretty good games and guys outperforming their salaries. Suddenly they wanna improve right away as well instead of playing the Houston mediocrity game until some small market team can't afford their 4th all star.

Don't forget Washington taking advantage of the East and lucking all their decisions after Emeka goes down. They become a shopper as well.

This is how these extra shoppers were created. And not extra guys to sign. Most of the guys unexpectedly entering the market were considering only Houston, Chicago, Dallas, Lakers anyways. Just these projected "again rebuilding", "still rebuilding" and "not yet ready to hit the market" teams just were too much for the available crop. That's why less cap space than anticipated will be rent or taken into next summer.

This is what created this Hayward mess in the first place.

So that is 7+ things no one really predicted that happened this year, but next year EVERYTHING will go as predicted so we don't have to worry? Too many possible teams with cap space and even if they don't fit Burks or Kanter, they can assist a team that does.

 

[Stifle Tower]

The provision has nothing to do with the salaries of 1st round picks. The first year of an offer sheet to a restricted free agent with less than 3 years of service time (early bird, as opposed to Larry Bird free agent) can only be for up to the non-taxpayer mid-level exception. The second year can contain a raise up to 4.1% of the first year salary. The third and possible fourth year can be up to any amount such that the average salary over the whole contract is not more than the signing team's available cap space. Structuring contracts this way allows teams to match the offer using cap space, the non-taxpayer mid-level exception or the Early Bird exception (the team does not have Bird Rights, since the player hasn't been in the league for 3 seasons).

LINK

Yep. There are only a couple of ways a "poison pill" could really work and it involves contracts with non-Bird FA's, a team's position relative to the cap and their exceptions, etc. It's so remote it may not even be worth a GM's time to think about it.

 

[ema]

The provision has nothing to do with the salaries of 1st round picks. The first year of an offer sheet to a restricted free agent with less than 3 years of service time (early bird, as opposed to Larry Bird free agent) can only be for up to the non-taxpayer mid-level exception. The second year can contain a raise up to 4.1% of the first year salary. The third and possible fourth year can be up to any amount such that the average salary over the whole contract is not more than the signing team's available cap space. Structuring contracts this way allows teams to match the offer using cap space, the non-taxpayer mid-level exception or the Early Bird exception (the team does not have Bird Rights, since the player hasn't been in the league for 3 seasons).

LINK

Yep. There are only a couple of ways a "poison pill" could really work and it involves contracts with non-Bird FA's, a team's position relative to the cap and their exceptions, etc. It's so remote it may not even be worth a GM's time to think about it.

This I admire about you guys.

I just can't get my head wrapped around this kind of stuff.

 

[BTP]

LOL.. bro.. Greg Miller didn't give birth to Gordon Hayward, ok? It's not like we're stuck with him for eternity.




If Ariza & Matthews come off the books by 2018 then you look at signing up other FA's. There will be plenty available by then, it's not that hard.

Well Hayward has a CHANCE to stick with the current core, fall in love with Snyder, Exum and whoever and decide to stay a part of the Jazz.

Matthews will become 31 in 2017, Ariza 32. They will be definately not desirable on a championship mission other than on a vet min contract. #keepgettingdemchecks

Idk man you talk in such absolutes about years way in the future its hard to take seriously. I'd hope Lindsey doesn't feel like hes got that type of job security and is more worried about being competitive asap.

Maybe the Jazz will land the #1 pick in the 2018 draft and Jarred Vanderbilt will save the day. who really knows?

Maybe. But with Hayward you have a chance to utilize your asset. Like a refill bottle.

With Ariza, Deng you simply have old, empty cans that are thrown into the garbage bin in 2018.

There is no possible way you can know this. Way too many moving parts and unknowns. Players will get better and team's situations will change (injuries, etc. . .)

Well. Melo signs for 4-5. Hits the market in 2018/2019. Prolly 2019 as a desperate veteran cuss New York, Dolan and stuff.

LeBron signs for 3 or 5. So 2017 or 2019 as a vet.

Durant is 2016 and then 2020.

Love 2015 and 2019/2020.

Anthony Davis 2020/2021.

Derrick Rose 2017(Yeah it's a long shot)

Westbrook 2017(His knees are just like Derrick's )

But feel free to suggest which potential 2017/2018 big time all nba caliber free agents could cause a cap space bidding riot.

The provision has nothing to do with the salaries of 1st round picks. The first year of an offer sheet to a restricted free agent with less than 3 years of service time (early bird, as opposed to Larry Bird free agent) can only be for up to the non-taxpayer mid-level exception. The second year can contain a raise up to 4.1% of the first year salary. The third and possible fourth year can be up to any amount such that the average salary over the whole contract is not more than the signing team's available cap space. Structuring contracts this way allows teams to match the offer using cap space, the non-taxpayer mid-level exception or the Early Bird exception (the team does not have Bird Rights, since the player hasn't been in the league for 3 seasons).

LINK

Yes it does. Gilbert Arenas was paid $10M in years 3 and 4. The NBPA was like: That's unfair, he earned more than the #1 pick over his rookie contract, you guys have to make a rule about it.

 

[BTP]

So that is 7+ things no one really predicted that happened this year, but next year EVERYTHING will go as predicted so we don't have to worry? Too many possible teams with cap space and even if they don't fit Burks or Kanter, they can assist a team that does.

No it doesn't. But the history shows, that it's very rare that things go that crazy. And there's no potential top3 player in the league who's unhappy and everybody is saving cap space for.

 

[Yell42]

No they shouldnt

But at least its not as bad as the Parsons contract

 

[Stifle Tower]

This is how these extra shoppers were created. And not extra guys to sign. Most of the guys unexpectedly entering the market were considering only Houston, Chicago, Dallas, Lakers anyways. Just these projected "again rebuilding", "still rebuilding" and "not yet ready to hit the market" teams just were too much for the available crop. That's why less cap space than anticipated will be rent or taken into next summer.

This is what created this Hayward mess in the first place.

There will ALWAYS be teams with cap space available EVERY year.
Miami (without Lebron), LA Lakers and New York will have space next season. Philadelphia at some point may decide to actually field a team. The one thing that created a ton of space this season was the cap increase. $5M across 30 teams means $150M suddenly became available. Many teams that were up against the cap were able to maneuver with just minor roster adjustments to gain significant space. The cap likely continues to increase over the next several years, especially with the new TV contract. I'm sure the league will smooth out the increases so there's not a huge jump and then a flat-line. But the point is, the higher-regarded FA's will continue to get paid, not just the Tier-1 players like LBJ and Melo, but players like Hayward and Parsons. We're going to eventually start losing a few players we like as we can't just keep matching inflated deals.

 

[GVC]

Yes it does. Gilbert Arenas was paid $10M in years 3 and 4. The NBPA was like: That's unfair, he earned more than the #1 pick over his rookie contract, you guys have to make a rule about it.

Link? A little googling on my end seems to indicate that the rule was introduced by owners to allow them to match offers to non-Bird restricted free agents, which makes more sense given that that's exactly what the exception does.

It's probably worth pointing out that Wes Matthews' cap hit in seasons 2 and 3 was greater than the salary of the #1 overall pick from his draft class, which was less than the midlevel exception. He was actually paid about $10mm in his first year in Portland because he was given a signing bonus.

Given all this information, your story doesn't make any sense. Not that it matters.

 

[JAZZGASM]

Overall, I see Hayward as a step below Paul George. George's contract is up to $18M a year based on the incentives (up to $90M over 5 years).

Hayward at $15.75 is a bit high, but I don't think it is the worst contract in the league. Granted, P.G. is a better defender, but overall his stats were not too far off from Hayward's, and P.G. plays in a system that benefits his game.

What are your opinions? How much more is P.G. worth to you than Hayward?

 

[Stifle Tower]

Overall, I see Hayward as a step below Paul George. George's contract is up to $18M a year based on the incentives (up to $90M over 5 years).

Hayward at $15.75 is a bit high, but I don't think it is the worst contract in the league. Granted, P.G. is a better defender, but overall his stats were not too far off from Hayward's, and P.G. plays in a system that benefits his game.

What are your opinions? How much more is P.G. worth to you than Hayward?

George >>>>>>>> Hayward. It's not even close.

Paul George will actually be more expensive than that as he is eligible for a 5/30% contract (the Derrick Rose rule) due to his all-star appearances and being named 3rd-team all-NBA.

"The final terms of George's deal will not be known until the NBA sets the salary cap in July. Based on a currently projected $63 million cap, George's deal will come in at about $97 million over the next five years.


But the Pacers also may be feeling good about how this is playing out because some artful negotiating saved them an additional $11 million George could have earned...Knowing that George had a good chance of making the All-NBA team again, the Pacers pre-emptively negotiated a provision that would limit the bonus. Instead of giving George 30 percent of the salary cap, as he was eligible for by making the two All-NBA teams, the Pacers and their franchise star agreed to 27 percent. This was the first time this type of deal had been agreed to. In return, the Pacers gave George an opt-out clause in 2018 so he can become a free agent sooner if he chooses."

 

[fishonjazz]

math to idiot.

Some sort of ironic ratio?

 

[fishonjazz]

So feel free to convince me what exactly you would do with the Jazz capspace when you let Gordon walk.

Use it to sign players that deserve it

Use it to trade for star players that other teams can no longer afford (harden at okc)

Use some of it on trevor ariza

Use it like boston did this year (take other teams one year salary dumps for assets)



Dont spend max money on average players