Popovich praises the Jazz

[Hantlers]

Go back and read what Lindsey said. He had being trying to trade Kanter. Did that happen in January, December or November? Not sure. But Kanter WAS on the market before he ever made his trade demand.

And you don't think the offers we had in November were a bit better than what we got in February after Kanter demanded a trade? C'mon now.

 

[The Midnight]

No, you're giving the GM the benefit of the doubt that he did a good job. There's a difference between that and what you said.

And that still doesn't answer my question. Did we get as much as we should have? It's a very simple question, yet you won't answer it. Is Enes Kanter worth a crappy 1st round pick, a crappy 2nd round pick, a DL player and a backup European center who may never come here? I tend to think he's worth a little more than that.

I don't know how many times I've got to say this - unless you're the GM receiving calls or have inside knowledge about what was offered, we simply don't have enough info to answer this with a simple yes or not.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

We got what kanter was worth on the market so yeah we got full value. I doubt DL had better offers at any time this year. Did we get historical value? No... We could have got more had we traded him last off season or the season before that.

The fact is we know we took the best offer on the table. His contract uncertainty hurt his value but we got full value for what we gave up. He's had a couple good games against one ok team and one awful team... Let's let this breathe and revisit.

In our case we have beat two playoff teams and beaten them solidly. All the advanced analytical point to Kanter being a terrible player... Let's give it 20 games before we decide if we got hosed in this deal.

 

[Fishsticks]

I'll try asking again: did we get as much as we should have with the Kanter trade? Yes or no?

I've already addressed your other points, so I'm not going to rehash them over and over and over again...it's getting tiresome.

I think your question would be easier to answer if you asked if we traded Kanter at the right time. The answer is absolutely not. Because of that we ended up taking far less than may have been available if we were proactive and shopped him earlier. However given the timing I am sure DL took whatever the best deal on the table was.

 

[fishonjazz]

Look - Gobert wasn't this good at the START of the season.

I disagree.
I knew he was great just from the international tournament, sl, and scrimmages

 

[fishonjazz]

No, you're giving the GM the benefit of the doubt that he did a good job. There's a difference between that and what you said.

And that still doesn't answer my question. Did we get as much as we should have? It's a very simple question, yet you won't answer it. Is Enes Kanter worth a crappy 1st round pick, a crappy 2nd round pick, a DL player and a backup European center who may never come here? I tend to think he's worth a little more than that.

I think okc definitely won the trade and kanter is worth more than we got. (I know you were asking triple k but I just wanted to chime in)

And you don't think the offers we had in November were a bit better than what we got in February after Kanter demanded a trade? C'mon now.

No idea on this one but what you say seems logical

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I disagree.
I knew he was great just from the international tournament, sl, and scrimmages

I prophesied this would happen to my dad based on SL... He thought I was crazy. A GM though needs a larger sample size.

I don't think we can declare a winner yet. I know this... I'd rather have the cap space and draft/foreign assets we got than Kanter, but I've not been a big Kanter fan.

 

[Stifle Tower]

And you don't think the offers we had in November were a bit better than what we got in February after Kanter demanded a trade? C'mon now.

Don't know. Did someone offer two firsts and then Dennis turned them down? I doubt it. Published reports said the Jazz were asking for picks and prospects. Maybe we could have gotten MCW or Reggie Jackson or some mid-tier vet. DL made the determination it was best to have up to $15M in cap space plus future assets - perhaps over another offer for a veteran...or perhaps not. Or maybe right up until Kanter's demand, DL thought he could still just match an offer and/or compromise on Kanter's asking price.

And I'll bet had Kanter received an offer of $15M and DL decided NOT to match, the posts on this board would have been along the lines of we should have traded him for at least SOMETHING, even a 2nd-rounder.

 

[Stifle Tower]

What I would agree on is OKC won the trade THIS year. Let's see what happens when Kanter demands the max in the off-season. Maybe he compromises with OKC. Sure didn't seem like he was going to do so from what Ergul said (the best in his generation comment). And if he just plays for the QO, it means he was a 1 1/2 year rental.

Really, it came down to Gobert or Kanter. Whoever didn't start next season would have been very unhappy. Three options: 1) We have Kanter for the QO next year (I think he plays for personal stats if that happens) and we lose him as an UFA. No return on assets; 2) We give him $15M for the next 4 years and trade Gobert. Maybe we get 2-3 firsts for Gobert; 3) We trade Kanter for whatever DL determines is the best offer and have Gobert for the next 2 seasons at $2M and then give him a 4-5 year deal after that.

Personally, I think Gobert has shown far more commitment to this team than Kanter. He's still on the cheap. And he may very well be a DPOY, franchise player. Don't care if we were to receive 3 future firsts (instead of just the one for Kanter). Utah has some very good, but not great players. How long have we been wanting a franchise player? Gobert can become one; but not if Kanter were to remain. Enes had to be traded THIS season.

 

[The Midnight]

What I would agree on is OKC won the trade THIS year. Let's see what happens when Kanter demands the max in the off-season. Maybe he compromises with OKC. Sure didn't seem like he was going to do so from what Ergul said (the best in his generation comment). And if he just plays for the QO, it means he was a 1 1/2 year rental.

Really, it came down to Gobert or Kanter. Whoever didn't start next season would have been very unhappy. Three options: 1) We have Kanter for the QO next year (I think he plays for personal stats if that happens) and we lose him as an UFA. No return on assets; 2) We give him $15M for the next 4 years and trade Gobert. Maybe we get 2-3 firsts for Gobert; 3) We trade Kanter for whatever DL determines is the best offer and have Gobert for the next 2 seasons at $2M and then give him a 4-5 year deal after that.

Personally, I think Gobert has shown far more commitment to this team than Kanter. And he's still on the cheap.

I think the trade was really just for this (mainly because they're in a playoff race with a closing window in Durant & Adams being injured).


I doubt OKC will pay a humongous amount of luxury tax for years to come for Kanter (unless he miraculously turns into Dirk lite).

 

[Stifle Tower]

I think the trade was really just for this (mainly because they're in a playoff race with a closing window in Durant & Adams being injured).


I doubt OKC will pay a humongous amount of luxury tax for years to come for Kanter (unless he miraculously turns into Dirk lite).

I agree. If Kanter comes back at the QO for them, it's not a bad thing at all. Like you said, they have a short window until Durant decides to leave or stay.

 

[Harcher]

A couple of points.
.
I'm dubious of the "demand a trade" significantly changes the market for a player. the reason is that if there are suitable bidders, the demand will set the price. Consider if Gobert was to demand a trade, how many teams would inquire? There would be a lot of demand creating a bidding war. T.
.
The next point is that Kanter at the beginning of the year was atrocious D. His value was LOWER then than it is now (or 3 weeks ago.) This cast a serious amount of doubt on him.
.
Next, the trading period is hardly active until the last week of trade deadline. This is a natural human tendency to wait it out and then all of sudden, the market opens and like the game of Pit, everyone starts yelling "2,2,2" Expecting good trade offers early for Kanter is simply not realistic.
.
And finally, the notion that the "Jazz should not have waited until Kanter asked for a trade" is also using 20/20 hindsight. There could have been reasonable discussions with Ergul to that point about the Jazz being willing to look around and Enes could have broken his promise to keep his mouth shut. The reason this seems plausible to me is because DL said and evidence is plentiful that trading doesn't start until 11th hour of the last week of the trade deadline - and because that is so obvious, then the Jazz made a business bet that Kanter would keep shut.
.
So really, I don't think there is any real reason how the Jazz could have trade him earlier for any better deal.