Pres. Of Baskettball Operations Says Interesting Things About Draft, Tomic, and Neto...

[Sexual Favors]

My opinion of Kanter has shifted a hell of a lot more than my opinion of Burks (who I thought could round into a decent 6th man).

Kanter looked like he might have the ability to round into a passable offensive hub. The end-of-season nonsense, where he effectively stated that defense doesn't matter (which came as no surprise, considering his play throughout the season) and that he deserved big minutes regardless of his play was an eye opener. Basketball is a team game, and Kanter simply doesn't have the ability to play as though he's the only player on the court. He seems to think he is, unfortunately.

A couple of things. There are two different interviews from Locker Cleanout Day. There's the ones on 1280, and there's the ones on the Utahjazz.com site. If you listen to both, you will see that Kanter was clearly trolling RJ. RJ was trying to play super-vet and son him, so Kanter trolled him by saying offense is more important. When asked seriously about it, he said you need both! Dennis Lindsey when asked also said the same thing. It is true, you need both. Those who win the title have enough of both.

Also, when listening to the two interviews, it is clear that he was upset that the C5 didn't play together, which is what they were told in the offseason. He was scapegoated for the 1-14 start, and thus didn't get too log as many minutes with the other C5. Also, he was clearly more efficient than Marvin across the board. Corbin threw him under the bus and let the media go to town on him. He has a right to be angry. He had a shoulder injury that kept him away from basketball all offseason, and then he was judged very harshly for not being ready for a completely new role, while playing with two jokes for Pg's in JLIII and Tinsley, and then punished for the team's losing, in a season that was meant for development. I don't think he's entitled, I just see him as not wanting to be the scapegoat. Like you said, basketball is a team sport, and our whole team sucked during the 1-14 stretch, mainly because key pieces were injured.

 

[NUMBERICA]

So then what is your excuse for Derrick Favors ****ty defensive numbers?

What numbers are "****ty"?

Anyway, to answer your question, he doesn't play with a lot of heart. He simply doesn't. I'm not convinced he loves the game.

 

[GVC]

A couple of things. There are two different interviews from Locker Cleanout Day. There's the ones on 1280, and there's the ones on the Utahjazz.com site. If you listen to both, you will see that Kanter was clearly trolling RJ. RJ was trying to play super-vet and sin him, so Kanter trolled him by saying offense is more important. When asked seriously about it, he said you need both! Dennis Lindsey when asked also said the same thing. It is true, you need both. Those who win the title have enough of both.

Also, when listening to the two interviews, it is clear that he was upset that the C5 didn't play together, which is what they were told in the offseason. He was scapegoated for the 1-14 start, and thus didn't get too log as many minutes with the other C5. Also, he was clearly more efficient than Marvin across the board. Corbin threw him under the bus and let the media go to town on him. He has a right to be angry. He had a shoulder injury that kept him away from basketball all offseason, and then he was judged very harshly for not being ready for a completely new role, while playing with two jokes for Pg's in JLIII and Tinsley, and then punished for the team's losing, in a season that was meant for development. I don't think he's entitled, I just see him as not wanting to be the scapegoat. Like you said, basketball is a team sport, and our whole team sucked during the 1-14 stretch, mainly because key pieces were injured.

If it were a vet saying the **** Kanter said, he would have been crucified on this site. He was upset about more than just the young guys playing together (we've been over this repeatedly...). I really wish someone had asked Kanter whose minutes should have been reduced so he could play more. Kanter is a me-first player. He's simply not good enough to approach the game that way.

The team played better with Favors-Marvin than they did with Favors-Kanter. How did Corbin throw him under the bus? He played the most sensible basketball lineups.

 

[Beantown]

Simply false. 2 of the 8 conference semi-finalists, 1 of the 4 conference finalists, and neither of the league finalists started 7-footers at the 5 in this year's playoffs. Jesus.

But all the teams have extremely good defensive big men if they are under 7 foot. And if you are 6'10 you better AMAZING (Noah, Ibaka, Ben Wallace)

Tiago Splitter, Tim Duncan for the Spurs and Chris Bosh 6'11.


Derrick Favors is an average defender and is 6'10.

 

[Beantown]

What numbers are "****ty"?

Anyway, to answer your question, he doesn't play with a lot of heart. He simply doesn't. I'm not convinced he loves the game.

Specifically it was Kevin Pelton's numbers in a podcast I listened to. He specifically was talking about Favors being undersized and just had an average defensive impact. But the Jazz are ranked as the worst team defensive team in the league. Most of that is coaching but that still falls on the players.

 

[green]

Never answered this. Yes, I think Tomic would (or at least should) start over Kanter. Kanter's garbage.

Kanter is a poor man's Boozer/Al. If they don't fit, he definitely doesn't. At least they were all stars.

 

[GVC]

But all the teams have extremely good defensive big men if they are under 7 foot. And if you are 6'10 you better AMAZING (Noah, Ibaka, Ben Wallace)

Tiago Splitter, Tim Duncan for the Spurs and Chris Bosh 6'11.


Derrick Favors is an average defender and is 6'10.

My comment was about his size. Favors has a 9'2'' standing reach, and is listed at 268 lbs on NBA.com. Median length, above average weight, above average athleticism. He's not "undersized" at the 5.

 

[GVC]

Kanter is a poor man's Boozer/Al. If they don't fit, he definitely doesn't. At least they were all stars.

Poor man's Al is more appropriate. Boozer was a terrific team player.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Is it Kanter's defense that has you so low on him?

I anticipate that Kanter's defense will improve with a full offseason of health.

His offense though? Right now, he is a poor man's Al Jefferson. That's being generous. We spent three years bitching about black-hole Jefferson (despite it bringing us a #4 offense in the league), and now we are pinning all of our hope towards a player who averaged 0.9APG with around 27mpg.


His court vision and BBIQ needs to improve, plain and simple. There have been flashes of nice Hi-Lo passes between Derrick and Kanter, but honestly his court-vision as a center leaves very much to be desired.

 

[GVC]

Back to the topic: If Tomic is willing to come over, the Jazz should do it.

 

[Beantown]

My comment was about his size. Favors has a 9'2'' standing reach, and is listed at 268 lbs on NBA.com. Median length, above average weight, above average athleticism. He's not "undersized" at the 5.

I will take Kevin Pelton's word over yours. But the point is that he's not a great defender.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Poor man's Al is more appropriate. Boozer was a terrific team player.

beat me to it.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I said this about Favors last year and I'm saying it about Kanter this year:

This is the year we see what Kanter is essentially going to be as an NBA player. Hopefully this year is more impressive for Kanter than it was for Favors.

 

[GVC]

I will take Kevin Pelton's word over yours.

I actually took a look at all the available measurements of starting centers from this past season. Are you confident Pelton did the same, or was he just looking at the 6'10'' measurement without context and concluding that Favors is undersized?

But the point is that he's not a great defender.

That was not the point.

 

[Sexual Favors]

If it were a vet saying the **** Kanter said, he would have been crucified on this site. He was upset about more than just the young guys playing together (we've been over this repeatedly...). I really wish someone had asked Kanter whose minutes should have been reduced so he could play more. Kanter is a me-first player. He's simply not good enough to approach the game that way.

The team played better with Favors-Marvin than they did with Favors-Kanter. How did Corbin throw him under the bus? He played the most sensible basketball lineups.

Corbin through him under the bus by telling the media that the Marvin lineup gave the team a better chance to win, than the Kanter lineup. How did he know this? A lot of variables switched at the same time. Trey, Marvin and Jeremy came back from injury, giving a serious jolt to the quality of players in rotation. And the schedule went from being the hardest in the league, to being one of the league's easiest when we started winning.

Marvin came back on 11/22 and immediately played 32 mins his first night back. Kanter played 32 mins the night before, and immediately played 21 mins on the night Marvin came back, then Kanter got injured in the OKC games on 11/24, didn't play in the CHI game on 11/25, and by the time he returned on 11/29 to face PHO, Corbin was rolling w/ Marvin, and Kanter's minutes were to be bounced around for the rest of the season.

You ask whose minutes should Kanter have taken? The answer is obviously Marvin.

Compare their splits:
https://espn.go.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/2797/marvin-williams
https://espn.go.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/6447/enes-kanter

Now per 36:

Enes Kanter- 49 FG%, 73 FT%, 3.7 ORB, 6.3 DRB, 10.1 TRB, 1.3 AST, 0.5 STL, 0.7 BLK, 2.4 TOV, 3.9 PF, 16.6 PTS

Marv- 44 FG%, 36 3PT%, 78 FT%, 1.8 ORB, 5.4 DRB, 7.2 TRB, 1.7 AST, 1.2 STL, 0.7 BLK, 1.1 TOV, 3.3 PF, 13.0 PTS

By all accounts, Kanter can stretch the floor, but was not allowed to under Corbin. So saying Marvin starts because of floor spacing isn't fair. Starting Marvin at PF made Favors have to play the 5, where he was a lot less effective. Marvin was also abused by most PF's he'd face. It's no wonder we were the worst defensive team.


By not playing Kanter the minutes that this season was designed for, he forced the Jazz abd Kanter to be in the same situation they are with Hayward. They have no ****ing clue what to pay him, and thus we'll have another player worried about his upcoming RFA. These aren't ideal situations to evaluate and determine a player's worth.

 

[fishonjazz]

The **** about playing time, and the second hand stuff (via RJ) about offense being more important than defense, which Kanter didn't deny. Enes plays like he's the only player on the court, and he talks like that's the right approach. If he had the ability to back that up, great. He doesn't.

You should pull up the thread titled "Young guys talent" or something like that.

In the first post of the thread there is a highlight video from a game vs portland.

This is not an enes kanter hight vid, but rather a utah jazz highlight from one single game.
In the video i saw kanter have 4 assists.




Also you never answered my question about if a 21 year might still have room to improve his play and attutude/maturity or if once a player reaches 21 years of age he is at his peak.

Has it ever happened before that new coach has came to a team and helped a player improve?

 

[Tarkanian]

Poor man's Al is more appropriate. Boozer was a terrific team player.

"and1" Boozer? matador Boozer?
really?

Now, I know your posts and respect you, for you are one quality-poster of this forum, a rarity nowadays.
But you are mistaken on Kanter. Kanter is a better rebounder than anybody else Jazz have to offer (maybe except Favors )
He has his ways of scoring as well.
He may be a bad help defender, which means he is not that flashy and spectaular but he has proven time and again that he is willing to learn.
Corbin's team was bad, disorganized and severely misused. This year may be Kanter's year.
But I agree with you, it may be with another team.
Jazz will be the losers, if they trade him.

 

[GVC]

Corbin through him under the bus by telling the media that the Marvin lineup gave the team a better chance to win, than the Kanter lineup. How did he know this? A lot of variables switched at the same time. Trey, Marvin and Jeremy came back from injury, giving a serious jolt to the quality of players in rotation. And the schedule went from being the hardest in the league, to being one of the league's easiest when we started winning.

Marvin came back on 11/22 and immediately played 32 mins his first night back. Kanter played 32 mins the night before, and immediately played 21 mins on the night Marvin came back, then Kanter got injured in the OKC games on 11/24, didn't play in the CHI game on 11/25, and by the time he returned on 11/29 to face PHO, Corbin was rolling w/ Marvin, and Kanter's minutes were to be bounced around for the rest of the season.

You ask whose minutes should Kanter have taken? The answer is obviously Marvin.

Compare their splits:
https://espn.go.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/2797/marvin-williams
https://espn.go.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/6447/enes-kanter

Now per 36:

Enes Kanter- 49 FG%, 73 FT%, 3.7 ORB, 6.3 DRB, 10.1 TRB, 1.3 AST, 0.5 STL, 0.7 BLK, 2.4 TOV, 3.9 PF, 16.6 PTS

Marv- 44 FG%, 36 3PT%, 78 FT%, 1.8 ORB, 5.4 DRB, 7.2 TRB, 1.7 AST, 1.2 STL, 0.7 BLK, 1.1 TOV, 3.3 PF, 13.0 PTS

By all accounts, Kanter can stretch the floor, but was not allowed to under Corbin. So saying Marvin starts because of floor spacing isn't fair. Starting Marvin at PF made Favors have to play the 5, where he was a lot less effective. Marvin was also abused by most PF's he'd face. It's no wonder we were the worst defensive team.

1. Individual stats aren't a good way to gauge lineups. Kanter and Favors played plenty of minutes together after the 1-14 start, but lineups featuring Favors-Marvin (or Kanter-Evans) were still a lot more effective, despite playing against starters more frequently. Favors-Marvin absolutely gave the team a better chance to win.

2. The question about whose minutes should be reduced was not directed toward you. I would have liked to hear Kanter answer the question. Not crazy about a player who throws his coaches and teammates under the bus like Kanter did.

 

[Stifle Tower]

SF killing it lately!
Corbin justified sending Kanter to the bench due to the Jazz record with him as a starter. When did Kanter start?

a. When the Jazz had a PG duo of Tinsley and JLIII. It wasn't long after the start of the season that Tinsley was released and Lucas was put in deep freeze. Do ya think Burke and Garrett are just a TINY bit better than Tinsley and JLIII?

b. Later in the season when Favors was hurt. Sure, take away ANY starter and the Jazz are going to struggle. Favors misses a game and the big rotation is Kanter, Gobert, Williams and Evans. Put Favors in and the rotation suddenly gets a LOT stronger

 

[GVC]

You should pull up the thread titled "Young guys talent" or something like that.

In the first post of the thread there is a highlight video from a game vs portland.

This is not an enes kanter hight vid, but rather a utah jazz highlight from one single game.
In the video i saw kanter have 4 assists.




Also you never answered my question about if a 21 year might still have room to improve his play and attutude/maturity or if once a player reaches 21 years of age he is at his peak.

Has it ever happened before that new coach has came to a team and helped a player improve?

Yikes.

1. Charlie Villanueva scored 48 points in a game as a rookie. Maybe the Jazz should sign him to the max.

2. Of course Kanter might mature. It doesn't seem like many players make HUGE strides after being in the league for a few seasons. I'm not holding my breath.