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Process vs. Results and the best nickname ever.

To put it simple... Jazz are a Player Farm. We nurture and help players reach potential. Milsap, Carrol, Haywierd, Mathews, and many others who left and lost it all. We are a team other teams dont trade with because as soon as the player is ripe for the picking the other teams know said player will look for bigger pastures.

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jazzfan1971 said:
And the best nickname ever? "**** Kancer". (stolen from the NY forum on realgm) I can't believe **** is filtered. The opening at the end of the alimentary canal through which solid wast matter leaves the body.
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I've been calling him anes Kantcer since he demanded a trade, as have a lot of other jazz fans. If that was on the knick's forum, they got it from one of us.
 
There were significant mistakes made in the KOC days... just the general retool not rebuild was the biggest mistake... there will always be individual mistakes. Hell GS cleared cap room for Dwight Howard (ended up with AI)and if David Lee never gets hurt maybe Draymond never happens. There were rumors that GS would have acquired DWill for that scrawny oft injured Curry kid.

Look... you have to have a plan and get really damned lucky. I have faith that our management team has a good plan... now we need to get really damned lucky. We need DM to be a star and Rudy to continue to get better and stay healthy. Need another pick to hit as well and maybe land a key value free agent.

The results of our current process are solid. Success can't just be measured in championships. Otherwise every process is basically a failure.
 
JFFR said:
From 1991 to 2007, 6 teams won a championship. Four of those teams had either Jordan, Shaq, Kobe, or Duncan. One of those teams had Olajuwon, but probably wouldn't have won if Jordan hadn't retired. The last team won when Shaq and Kobe had a meltdown.

[MENTION=1902]jazzfan1971[/MENTION] - do you really not know why this process isn't working?

Here's the reason why. It is EXTREMELY difficult to win an NBA championship in the modern NBA.

2008 to 2017 doesn't get much better. LeBron, Kobe, Celtics, and Curry, won all but one of those.

In the past 26 years (and you could probably go back further) a team oriented basketball organization has one it twice. And those teams had pretty special players as well. The Pistons had a defensive superstar in Ben Wallace and the Mavs had Dirk at his peak. I don't know if Gobert can measure up.

Crazy things have to happen for the Jazz to compete for a championship. After the crazy things happen, the stars have to align. It's next to impossible. Basketball isn't soccer where a team can overcome long odds (keep in mind, there are multiple seven game series teams have to get through.)
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Donovan Mitchell is in the building! Perhaps he is the best all round player in one of the best drafts in a decade. Tatum will score more. Ball will setup more. But D Mitch has already lead us or at least sparked us to 3 wins IMHO. Is this the start of a turn for us? We have him for at least the next 7 years barring anything crazy.

I am definitely drinking the koolaid, but he really does look to be somewhere between Damian Lillard lite on offense and Kawhi lite on defense. That's a pretty unique player we just got folks.
 
jazzfan1971 said:
There are two ways to judge a team in my mind. Process or Results.

When teams get graded for an offseason it usually comes down to the grader favoring one over the other. Jazz get high marks this offseason if you only look at process. Terrible marks if you only look at results.

One would hope that continual strong process will lead to strong results.

I'm just not sure it does. Or maybe I'm just not good at judging process.

From where I'm sitting the Jazz are doing things right. Smart drafting, smart trading, good front office, good player development, good scouting, good coaching, etc...

I don't really know where to fault them from a process standpoint. It's the results that are disappointing.

And I don't really know why.

The Jazz can't seem to translate process into results. Maybe it's just luck. Bad luck. Or maybe I just have Jazz colored glasses on and think everything they do is wonderful because they are the team I love.

So, I'm disapponted with results. But, even sitting here in my armchair with the benefit of hindsight I have a lot of trouble saying where the Jazz went wrong. Or more importantly, how to change the process to get better results in the future.

I guess that's my question for you folks. What changes to process do you think the Jazz could realistically make to see better results?


And the best nickname ever? "**** Kancer". (stolen from the NY forum on realgm) I can't believe **** is filtered. The opening at the end of the alimentary canal through which solid wast matter leaves the body.
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The Process vs. Results. The third option - the Blender. Just throw bodies, depth, and defense and hope something sticks. Plus it works as a nickname. Donovan Mitchell - the Blender. Thabo - the Blender. Udoh - the Blender, etc.
 
Ron Mexico said:
We also got Rubio out of the Kanter trade. Trading DWill was definitely a good move. Dwill went downhill quick.

As far as the rest of those guys go, it was a decent move. Had we kept them we would not have got a few higher picks and would not have won enough to matter. They would have simply kept us in the playoffs just to lose in the first round.

Kyle Korver is not a player the Jazz could bring back after he screwed over the Jazz for selfish reasons.

Millsap seemingly wanted to go and we needed to find out what we had in Kanter and Favors. But I think you over value Millsap and undervalue Favors.

Wes Matthews was a bad deal. We should have matched that deal.

But again none of those players are difference makers. We have our best chance in a long time in having this team turn into something. We have to get lucky. We got lucky with Gobert. We are hoping to get lucky with Mitchell and we are still hoping Exum pans out to be good. If we 2 more all-star level players to go with Gobert and solid starters and bench around them we could really make a run. Will we win it all with them? Probably not but we might get lucky.
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If we had traded Favors before we let Millsap go, we would have been a contender. Millsap has been a damn good ball player and Favors could have netted us a very good asset because his "potential". If we had Millsap over Favors the last 5 years, our team looks a lot different. Millsap next to Gobert and Hayward is a dream 3, 4 and 5.

We spent so much to prioritize Kanter and Favors that we got rid of the best one. Hell, Kanter would have been a better guy to keep in hindsight. He fits next to Gobert.

Carroll, Wes and Korver are really, really good players. All have had better careers and winning teams than Favors. Its harsh but true. We planned to build around one guy with no loyalty (Gordo) and another who was just never that good (Fave).

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Ron Mexico said:
I couldn't read past here.

Lol, no. You definitely over rate Millsap.
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Its the combination of skill sets. Favors doesnt compliment anybody on offense. He is a solid rebounder and above average defender. If we had kept Wes, kept Millsap and traded Favors for a high draft pick when he had value, we would have been a contender.

Wes, Hayward, Favors and Gobert are incredibly balanced on both ends. But instead we let guys walk and hitched our wagon to an average player.

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LoPo said:
Its the combination of skill sets. Favors doesnt compliment anybody on offense. He is a solid rebounder and above average defender. If we had kept Wes, kept Millsap and traded Favors for a high draft pick when he had value, we would have been a contender.

Wes, Hayward, Favors and Gobert are incredibly balanced on both ends. But instead we let guys walk and hitched our wagon to an average player.

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Nah, Millsap is a solid borderline all star player who went East and beat up easy competition with a good team. He doesn't really compliment Gobert that well. A three point shooting big would. We needed a healthy Favor's, that's hurt us but either way we wouldn't have been contenders. Millsap played with 4 other all Stars in the crappy East and they weren't contenders.

Also Favor's has been solid helping the offense this year.
 
Ron Mexico said:
Nah, Millsap is a solid borderline all star player who went East and beat up easy competition with a good team. He doesn't really compliment Gobert that well. A three point shooting big would. We needed a healthy Favor's, that's hurt us but either way we wouldn't have been contenders. Millsap played with 4 other all Stars in the crappy East and they weren't contenders.

Also Favor's has been solid helping the offense this year.
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Lol Ron. You don't know ****. Millsap was the best Atlanta Hawk, does shoot the 3 and perfectly compliments Gobert. They are both 1st or 2nd team all NBA quality.

Not surprised you dont see it. Healthy Favors huh? What's his excuse this year? First it was he wasn't ready. Then it was because he wasn't getting the minutes. Then it was the roster. Then it was injuries. All the while, he is going to be great. What a joke.

He is average and we lost so many assets to keep this average player. Now he will leave for nothing to be average elsewhere.

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