David Hume
Well-Known Member
Pence and pound are the bottom line. John Martin Collins the Third costs the Hawks more pounds than he is valued.
RealGM reports Jazz interested in Trading for John Collins
- Thread starter David Hume
- Start date
Pence and pound are the bottom line. John Martin Collins the Third costs the Hawks more pounds than he is valued.
Clarkson Gay and Dok for Collins.
We move Beasley to the starting unit and Vando to the bench. Conley Beasley Lauri Collins and KO is a solid starting unit. I wouldnt be opposed to trading KO and Conley as well if we could get something solid for them. But I like Sexton but he isnt going to improve the young guys around him, you would still need a good passing guard to play with them. Sexton is a 6th man guy for now.
We move Beasley to the starting unit and Vando to the bench. Conley Beasley Lauri Collins and KO is a solid starting unit. I wouldnt be opposed to trading KO and Conley as well if we could get something solid for them. But I like Sexton but he isnt going to improve the young guys around him, you would still need a good passing guard to play with them. Sexton is a 6th man guy for now.
You're not going to get Collins on that much of a discount
Engorged On Unborn Gore
Well-Known Member
It's gonna cost us Beasley, regardless of who the primary player is.
Probably not, I would be happy to include a pick/s as well as long as they have protections. There are other player I would go for as well. I think he has a chance to turn his career around and decent to take a chance on.
HermanG
Well-Known Member
I've been critical about this trade, but the more I've thought about it the more it starts to make sense why DA would look deep into this.
Contractually it makes sense, since we would likely have to pay Clarkson similar money to what JC is getting right now to extend him, especially if he keeps playing like he has. At 30 that is a big risk to take. We dont even know if he wants to stay. Beasley is on a club option next year, but beyond that there are no guarantees. Collins cap number is not gonna be that big of a deal once the cap goes up, and he is signed through 2024-25 season with a player option for 25-26.
Defensively it seems to make sense. According to Hawksquawk JC is a very solid defender, which cannot be said about Beasley or even Clarkson. Our biggest area of concern is defending the paint and athletic wings and bigger guards, and adding JC would probably make life easier for Lauri as well on that end of the court. I also like the fact that he seems like a very versatile defender, who you can switch to guard a smaller guy and he still has the athleticism to stay in position and contest shots.
Rosterwise it makes some sense. I feel like KO and Vando get more criticism than any guys in this team, and at the very least Collins would add depth to our forward position, which we really dont have atm. Vando or KO are not stellar in attacking the paint, and they dont command extra attention from opposing wings or bigs. The biggest issue is that we would lose bench flamethrower options and our guard position would get thinner and THT and NAW would have to step up.
Personalitywise it makes sense. I read some articles that state that he is a happy and positive guy, who is generally liked. Sounds like a guy who would fit the bill. He has voiced his displeasure this year, but I wouldnt see that as a red flag since he obviously suffers from the 2 dominant guard syndrome that the Hawks are going through. He would also come to town with a chip on his shoulder and something to prove, which is the whole theme of this Jazz team.
Playstyle-wise I feel like we would be forced to play the style and brand of baskeball we want to play. While Clarkson and Beasley can both get hot and score a lot of points, they both can also turn into black holes.
Fit with Lauri is a questionmark. It could be that he helps with the spacing so that Lauri gets more touches than now, but on the other hand they could end up stealing each others touches. They have a lot of similarities and pose a threat on all 3 levels, so I would still argue that our frontcourt turns much more dangerous with Collins and Lauri in there, regardless who the 3rd guy is. Collins has also allegedly improved his handle so he can score both on and off ball depending on matchup.
Contractually it makes sense, since we would likely have to pay Clarkson similar money to what JC is getting right now to extend him, especially if he keeps playing like he has. At 30 that is a big risk to take. We dont even know if he wants to stay. Beasley is on a club option next year, but beyond that there are no guarantees. Collins cap number is not gonna be that big of a deal once the cap goes up, and he is signed through 2024-25 season with a player option for 25-26.
Defensively it seems to make sense. According to Hawksquawk JC is a very solid defender, which cannot be said about Beasley or even Clarkson. Our biggest area of concern is defending the paint and athletic wings and bigger guards, and adding JC would probably make life easier for Lauri as well on that end of the court. I also like the fact that he seems like a very versatile defender, who you can switch to guard a smaller guy and he still has the athleticism to stay in position and contest shots.
Rosterwise it makes some sense. I feel like KO and Vando get more criticism than any guys in this team, and at the very least Collins would add depth to our forward position, which we really dont have atm. Vando or KO are not stellar in attacking the paint, and they dont command extra attention from opposing wings or bigs. The biggest issue is that we would lose bench flamethrower options and our guard position would get thinner and THT and NAW would have to step up.
Personalitywise it makes sense. I read some articles that state that he is a happy and positive guy, who is generally liked. Sounds like a guy who would fit the bill. He has voiced his displeasure this year, but I wouldnt see that as a red flag since he obviously suffers from the 2 dominant guard syndrome that the Hawks are going through. He would also come to town with a chip on his shoulder and something to prove, which is the whole theme of this Jazz team.
Playstyle-wise I feel like we would be forced to play the style and brand of baskeball we want to play. While Clarkson and Beasley can both get hot and score a lot of points, they both can also turn into black holes.
Fit with Lauri is a questionmark. It could be that he helps with the spacing so that Lauri gets more touches than now, but on the other hand they could end up stealing each others touches. They have a lot of similarities and pose a threat on all 3 levels, so I would still argue that our frontcourt turns much more dangerous with Collins and Lauri in there, regardless who the 3rd guy is. Collins has also allegedly improved his handle so he can score both on and off ball depending on matchup.
HermanG
Well-Known Member
Oh and for Hawks, that trade makes sense as well. They are good defensively, but they need more out of their offense. They are not getting much out of Collins with how they currently run their offense, and they can afford to give up one defensive piece. They need more bench scoring and a consistent perimeter spacing 3 point scorer as well, which is exactly what they would get with Beasley. Clarkson would likely be a 25-30 minute guard rotation piece that would enable them to run small ball more effectively as well and they could control Trae and Dejounte minutes better to keep them more fresh as the year goes on.
Gay+Vando+NAW+THT+ future pick swap (Cleveland maybe?) and future 2nds...for Collins.