Reasons you left the LDS church.

[Jazz Spazz]

Unless, of course, it's missionaries telling people how much better their religion is than whatever it is that the potential non-believers believe.

Missionaries may try to help people understand the gospel of Jesus Christ, and encourage them to do things that may get them to "convert" to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, but generally missionaries are not telling people what that person believes.
If I was a missionary and I met you on the street, I would try to tell you what I believe, I would not try to tell you what you believe. I don't even know you, so how do I know what you truly believe? I believe that was Colton's point.
Go ahead and ask me what I believe if you want to know.

Your missionary line made no sense in the context of what Colton was saying.

 

[Xsy]

Rule #1 when talking to people about religion is to ask them what they believe, not tell them what they believe.

When you say you believe in the LDS church, I'm assuming you believe in its teachings. If you don't believe in what the prophets say, I wouldn't consider you LDS. Especially in a church as unique as the LDS church, where you have a modern day prophet who literally speaks directly to god. If you believe in the LDS church, I assume you believe in the articles of faith. Particularly number 5. Also, I didn't tell you what you believe in, you told me you were LDS-- that means you told me what you believe in.

I was a very active member until I was 19-- I was even ready to go on a mission, before I finally renounced my religion. Honestly, it was the hardest part of coming out.

 

[Xsy]

This is the equivalent of using a microscope to look at one plant in an ecosystem, and then thinking you understand the whole ecosystem based on that one view. It's interesting to me how everything in the scriptures are focused on the goal of living with God, and everything in the LDS Church is based on returning to live with the God we were with before this life, and yet so many people get stuck focusing on one or two things that bother them that they forget to take a step back and see the whole picture. Every prophet, and every scripture points to Christ. Christ has accepted our burden, done what we could not do, and points us to God.

My understanding and belief on this topic, if I can word it well, is that even though certain physical ordinances are needed to get to the Celestial Kingdom ( live with God again), this has much more to do with what is inside each of us as a person. We can get baptized and married and all of that, but it has more to do with who we are inside. I think when all is said and done there will be plenty of surprises as to who is in the Celestial Kingdom, and who is not.

I post this just to clarify, not to convince. I know many of you have your reasons for doing what you do, and believing or not believing as you do. That is fine, I have no problem with that. I just hope that good communication and understanding, even if the two parties disagree, will lead to less hurt feelings and more civil comments.<--- that last part was in general, not directed at you Xsy

Why is it a bad thing to know the details? A lot of people who are raised LDS believe without thinking. To not take a look in the microscope is ignorant. Its like buying a car without opening the hood or taking it for a test drive. Its just dumb.

 

[colton]

Unless, of course, it's missionaries telling people how much better their religion is than whatever it is that the potential non-believers believe.

I think you misinterpreted my comment. Perhaps it was ambiguous. I'm saying Rule #1 is that person A should not try to tell person B what person B believes. Not that person A shouldn't tell person B what person A believes.

 

[Xsy]

Ha, well, whatever. If there's one thing I've learned, its to never really debate religion with religious people. When faith is involved, debate doesn't really ... mean anything.

Its why I avoid topics like 'How many wins does Utah get this year.' Some people just have too much faith, and I don't want to be seen as the pessimistic guy who says '25 wins'.

 

[Ron Mexico]

LDS people are the greatest at justifying. Religion in general, but Mormons above the rest have this as their greatest attribute.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Why is it a bad thing to know the details? A lot of people who are raised LDS believe without thinking. To not take a look in the microscope is ignorant. Its like buying a car without opening the hood or taking it for a test drive. Its just dumb.

But you have to take a look into the microscope in hundreds, or thousands of areas, not just one. That's what I mean by big picture, take a step back, look at the whole "ecosystem" as a whole, and try to understand how all of the different parts relate to each other. I also believe it's good to look into things, but I also believe it is shortsighted to look into one thing and make a judgement of the whole "ecosystem" based on the one thing you looked focused on.

 

[NUMBERICA]

No question. A better way to put that might be that by and large the bigtime BYU haters here are also anti-LDS.

Just because you bark at ghosts and are delusional doesn't mean I hate BYU.

And in case that wasn't in reference to me, I don't believe that YB or Salty are ANTI-LDS, but I could be wrong.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

LDS people are the greatest at justifying. Religion in general, but Mormons above the rest have this as their greatest attribute.

There are always 2 sides to a coin. I just try to explain what I feel to be misunderstandings about my faith. Just as you say LDS people are great at justifying, I could say you are great at dismissing? It's called communication. I can listen to your beliefs for a better understanding of who you are without scoffing or ridiculing. By the way justifying is a 2 way street. Justify why you believe... justify why you dont.

 

[NUMBERICA]

If the church just admitted there have been mistakes it would help alot of people out.

It won't and can't. That's something you sacrifice when you have such a luxury of claiming to be acting totally in accordance with god's will and claiming modern-day revelation. It makes no sense for god to have a change of heart and that is also preached, so for prophets to say 'BLACKS ARE UNCOUTH AND UNCOMELY, WILL BE STRICKEN DOWN IF THEY MARRY INTERRACIALLY, AND WILL NEVER HAVE THE PRIESTHOOD I SAY THIS IN JESUS' NAME, AND POLYGAMY FOR SOME REASON!

(50 to 130 years later)...

JUST KIDDING.' Doesn't really make sense.

 

[bigb]

I've often wondered how many believers would be believers if their parents belonged to a different religion. This goes with any religion. If Joseph Smith/Muhammed/Whoever started their religion today instead of when they did, would you buy in or would you view them as a charlatan or as delusional?

I've wondered this about myself many times. I like to think that I would be open to hearing about it and judging for myself, at least at this point in my life. When I was younger, I would have gone with the labeling them as a charlatan.

 

[bigb]

Unless, of course, it's missionaries telling people how much better their religion is than whatever it is that the potential non-believers believe.

I personally NEVER did that. I feel that telling someone they are absolutely wrong is very counter-productive.