Ricky Rubio the Basketball Enigma

[infection]

If only the season began in February

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Let's trade Exum to Milwaukee for Hill, keep Rubio fresh so that we can unleash him on the league in 6 weeks.

 

[Getting Traded]

Ricky would be best in the Derrick Fisher role, a vet who can come off the bench when everything is going wrong and will calm things down. With shorter minutes, he can use his experience and energy to the utmost. In such a role, he would not be looking to shoot anything but shots at or close to the rim when the opportunity presents itself.

 

[NUMBERICA]

The playoffs are after the AllStar break. He's at his best when he's most needed.

If you make the playoffs.

 

[JimLes]

If only the season began in February

It did in '99.

If only Uncle Ricko could build that time machine and go back to 1999, he'd be an All-Star and the Jazz would've beaten the Blazers, then Spurs, then the Knicks.

 

[jazzETX]

imagine if people actually guarded him, his %'s would be even more abysmal. can't win anything of value with him as your starting PG, it's as simple as that.

 

[fishonjazz]

The playoffs are after the AllStar break. He's at his best when he's most needed.

Ya but those games in October, November, December, and January help determine if you even get into the playoffs and what seed you get. Not sure if you know this but the West teams were so close together in the playoff race last year and likely will be again this year. The games early in the year are just as important as the games later in the year with the exception of the playoffs of course.

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[Spinoza]

I don't want to see Ricky Rubio as our starting PG anymore. That's all.

 

[gomretat]

Ricky does not fit with the offensive scheme that QS is running. In fact, the team is not a good fit for what QS is doing this year. We either need to change the system or get a few more real good shooters.

 

[Sugarless]

Ricky brings a lot to the table - more than he's given credit for. But the inability to hit open shots is a deal breaker for me. 2 for 12 or 0 for 8 happens way too often . When you shoot like that and play 30mpg it puts so much pressure on the rest of the team . In order to win it usually requires at least one player scoring way over his average (e.g. Jae last night).

I agree that those 2 for 12's and 0 for 8's happen too often. I am a huge Ricky fan and I get tired of it as well. But the analysis for why that is happening has to be deeper than what we've seen here so far.

(Disclaimer: the rest of this post is not addressed at Candrew specifically, I'm not pointing him out)

One of the things that many people on this board seem to overlook when it comes to the Jazz offensive struggles (maybe it's lazyness, maybe it's lack of understanding / awareness, maybe it's just because it goes against their preferred narratives) is the fact that most guys on the team just refuse to take bad shots even when there's not a better option out there, which is why Donovan and Ricky end up shooting more than they should, and usually worse shots too. You just can't have the luxury of having so many guys like Rudy, Ingles, Korver, O'Neal or Exum focusing only on the shots they like, even when the team needs them to shoot in different situations. You can't have them passing up scoring opportunities only to dump the ball to Mitchell or Rubio under pressure and force them to take an even worse shot only because Rudy refuses to try anything other than scoring on a roll to the basket or off a put-back, and Ingles won't shoot a 3 unless he's got time to release the ball and is confident he can make it, and he won't look to score from two if he doesn't get a clear lane for a lay-up or the occasional teardrop. We see those instances dozens of times every week and it has a direct effect on the two guys that end up with the ball more often, not only because they are they main ballhandlers, but also because they are the most aggressive and unafraid to miss in those situations, because they understand eventually someone needs to take the shot.

This situation is what's lead Rubio to shoot 18.3 times per 100 possessions for the Jazz when he had only averaged 13.6 FGs per 100 for the Wolves, and a big reason why despite some pretty evident improvements in his game as a scorer, he continues to be so inconsistent and have those 2 for 12 nights. That's the reason why a guy like Joe Ingles, "one of the best shooters in the league", takes 66% of his shots being open (closest defender 4-6 feet from him) or wide-open (6+ feet) as per NBA data, which is almost as often as Rubio, a guy "that defenses constantly leave wide open". That's also a big reason why the offense gets so stagnant, so often, cause the starting C not only will not try to score from beyond 5 ft, but also has made just *11 shots all season* that are not lay-ups, dunks or tip-ins (and he's at 177 FGM!). So when you have good man-to-man defense from the other team, when your guys are tired or you're not moving the ball fast enough and can't find an open man, you don't have the possibility of dumping the ball into the post and running an inside-out offense, or simply waiting for your 7'2'' C to draw another defender, because everyone knows he won't even look at the basket.

This is not to say all of Rubio's and Mitchell's struggles are influenced by their teammates, but when you have a team that is lacking in so many areas offensively, when you have guys that are either gun-shy or flat-out trying to keep their %'s up, looking for a scapegoat or focussing on the guys that are more affected by those factors comes off as lazy, uninformed and, frankly, pretty dumb.

 

[Jingled]

My biggest problem with Ricky is the way he is guarded or should I say not guarded. Nobody respects his shot at all so they sag way off of him and it messes up our spacing on offense, especially when he's out there with both Favors and Gobert. It feels like he's sort of a square peg trying to fit in a round hole, just not a great fit in Snyder's system.

 

[fishonjazz]

I agree that those 2 for 12's and 0 for 8's happen too often. I am a huge Ricky fan and I get tired of it as well. But the analysis for why that is happening has to be deeper than what we've seen here so far.

(Disclaimer: the rest of this post is not addressed at Candrew specifically, I'm not pointing him out)

One of the things that many people on this board seem to overlook when it comes to the Jazz offensive struggles (maybe it's lazyness, maybe it's lack of understanding / awareness, maybe it's just because it goes against their preferred narratives) is the fact that most guys on the team just refuse to take bad shots even when there's not a better option out there, which is why Donovan and Ricky end up shooting more than they should, and usually worse shots too. You just can't have the luxury of having so many guys like Rudy, Ingles, Korver, O'Neal or Exum focusing only on the shots they like, even when the team needs them to shoot in different situations. You can't have them passing up scoring opportunities only to dump the ball to Mitchell or Rubio under pressure and force them to take an even worse shot only because Rudy refuses to try anything other than scoring on a roll to the basket or off a put-back, and Ingles won't shoot a 3 unless he's got time to release the ball and is confident he can make it, and he won't look to score from two if he doesn't get a clear lane for a lay-up or the occasional teardrop. We see those instances dozens of times every week and it has a direct effect on the two guys that end up with the ball more often, not only because they are they main ballhandlers, but also because they are the most aggressive and unafraid to miss in those situations, because they understand eventually someone needs to take the shot.

This situation is what's lead Rubio to shoot 18.3 times per 100 possessions for the Jazz when he had only averaged 13.6 FGs per 100 for the Wolves, and a big reason why despite some pretty evident improvements in his game as a scorer, he continues to be so inconsistent and have those 2 for 12 nights. That's the reason why a guy like Joe Ingles, "one of the best shooters in the league", takes 66% of his shots being open (closest defender 4-6 feet from him) or wide-open (6+ feet) as per NBA data, which is almost as often as Rubio, a guy "that defenses constantly leave wide open". That's also a big reason why the offense gets so stagnant, so often, cause the starting C not only will not try to score from beyond 5 ft, but also has made just *11 shots all season* that are not lay-ups, dunks or tip-ins (and he's at 177 FGM!). So when you have good man-to-man defense from the other team, when your guys are tired or you're not moving the ball fast enough and can't find an open man, you don't have the possibility of dumping the ball into the post and running an inside-out offense, or simply waiting for your 7'2'' C to draw another defender, because everyone knows he won't even look at the basket.

This is not to say all of Rubio's and Mitchell's struggles are influenced by their teammates, but when you have a team that is lacking in so many areas offensively, when you have guys that are either gun-shy or flat-out trying to keep their %'s up, looking for a scapegoat or focussing on the guys that are more affected by those factors comes off as lazy, uninformed and, frankly, pretty dumb.

I disagree. I don't think Rubio shoots because other players won't. I think he shoots because he is wide open often and quin wants all his players to shoot wide open shots. Rubio takes so many shots (and other guys take less shots) because the defense purposely leaves Ricky open but not the other players.

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[Kyoto]

He's been here a year and a half... played a lot of minutes... I still don't know how good or bad he is.

I've never been this puzzled on a guy. He shares the floor so much with Ingles and Rudy who clearly impact the defense that I'm not sure how much of a defensive impact he really has. He deflects a lot of balls and there are nights you clearly see the impact... then there are nights he gets blown by and is kinda rough.

The offense is a damned roller coaster... some nights he's Rick Curry other nights he can't shoot and turns it over waaaay too much.

Off the court he is just amazing! Good teammate and better person. Everything basketball related he is just an enigma.

Its frustrating, I would rather him be a worse player but at least consistant. I'm still a Rubio homer, but I can see that he really isn't right for this current team. It's unfair for him to be a shot maker when he hasn't ever been that in his career. If the Jazz had more scorers for him to set up with the occasional 0/6 or 8/11 shooting nights then he would fit in easier.

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[Kyoto]

I disagree. I don't think Rubio shoots because other players won't. I think he shoots because he is wide open often and quin wants all his players to shoot wide open shots. Rubio takes so many shots (and other guys take less shots) because the defense purposely leaves Ricky open but not the other players.

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Honestly it's part both. Imho ingles doesn't nearly shoot as much as he should, and there are a lot of times when they pass it back to Rubio with a short shot clock. It is true what you say though, Quinn wants him to shoot it while he's open, because if he doesn't it just tells the defense that they dont need to worry about Rubio at all.

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[mdalby]

I am sincere in this statement... I have no idea how anyone can say this season that Ricky is a "nice" player. There is no way to justify that statement.

Anytime that Dante does any of the TOs or stupid shots that Ricky does, he gets the end of the bench. Ricky is a nice guy and a great teammate but he is NOT a nice player.

There is no way to justify Ricky starting after this sampling of games this season.

 

[Kyoto]

I am sincere in this statement... I have no idea how anyone can say this season that Ricky is a "nice" player. There is no way to justify that statement.

Anytime that Dante does any of the TOs or stupid shots that Ricky does, he gets the end of the bench. Ricky is a nice guy and a great teammate but he is NOT a nice player.

There is no way to justify Ricky starting after this sampling of games this season.

Ricky can score sometimes, you cant really say that about dante. Also, running the offense is a thing too, Rubio does that a lot better.

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[NAOS]

I’m a long-time Rubio supporter, but I’ll sweat like a bitch if we re-sign him without getting a stretchy, playmaking PF. That’s the only ingredient that allows Rubio to fit as the jazz try to move into the next tier.

 

[fishonjazz]

I am sincere in this statement... I have no idea how anyone can say this season that Ricky is a "nice" player. There is no way to justify that statement.

Anytime that Dante does any of the TOs or stupid shots that Ricky does, he gets the end of the bench. Ricky is a nice guy and a great teammate but he is NOT a nice player.

There is no way to justify Ricky starting after this sampling of games this season.

I can see why he starts. Cause Exum isn't very good either. Some crappy point guard has to start for this team. I do think Exum should get more minutes though and Ricky get less. And would love to trade either or both of them

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[JazzMan4Life]

I agree that those 2 for 12's and 0 for 8's happen too often. I am a huge Ricky fan and I get tired of it as well. But the analysis for why that is happening has to be deeper than what we've seen here so far.

(Disclaimer: the rest of this post is not addressed at Candrew specifically, I'm not pointing him out)

One of the things that many people on this board seem to overlook when it comes to the Jazz offensive struggles (maybe it's lazyness, maybe it's lack of understanding / awareness, maybe it's just because it goes against their preferred narratives) is the fact that most guys on the team just refuse to take bad shots even when there's not a better option out there, which is why Donovan and Ricky end up shooting more than they should, and usually worse shots too. You just can't have the luxury of having so many guys like Rudy, Ingles, Korver, O'Neal or Exum focusing only on the shots they like, even when the team needs them to shoot in different situations. You can't have them passing up scoring opportunities only to dump the ball to Mitchell or Rubio under pressure and force them to take an even worse shot only because Rudy refuses to try anything other than scoring on a roll to the basket or off a put-back, and Ingles won't shoot a 3 unless he's got time to release the ball and is confident he can make it, and he won't look to score from two if he doesn't get a clear lane for a lay-up or the occasional teardrop. We see those instances dozens of times every week and it has a direct effect on the two guys that end up with the ball more often, not only because they are they main ballhandlers, but also because they are the most aggressive and unafraid to miss in those situations, because they understand eventually someone needs to take the shot.

This situation is what's lead Rubio to shoot 18.3 times per 100 possessions for the Jazz when he had only averaged 13.6 FGs per 100 for the Wolves, and a big reason why despite some pretty evident improvements in his game as a scorer, he continues to be so inconsistent and have those 2 for 12 nights. That's the reason why a guy like Joe Ingles, "one of the best shooters in the league", takes 66% of his shots being open (closest defender 4-6 feet from him) or wide-open (6+ feet) as per NBA data, which is almost as often as Rubio, a guy "that defenses constantly leave wide open". That's also a big reason why the offense gets so stagnant, so often, cause the starting C not only will not try to score from beyond 5 ft, but also has made just *11 shots all season* that are not lay-ups, dunks or tip-ins (and he's at 177 FGM!). So when you have good man-to-man defense from the other team, when your guys are tired or you're not moving the ball fast enough and can't find an open man, you don't have the possibility of dumping the ball into the post and running an inside-out offense, or simply waiting for your 7'2'' C to draw another defender, because everyone knows he won't even look at the basket.

This is not to say all of Rubio's and Mitchell's struggles are influenced by their teammates, but when you have a team that is lacking in so many areas offensively, when you have guys that are either gun-shy or flat-out trying to keep their %'s up, looking for a scapegoat or focussing on the guys that are more affected by those factors comes off as lazy, uninformed and, frankly, pretty dumb.

I disagree with some of this, but overall a great post.

 

[8]

Ricky is a quality basketball player for sure, but he is ideal with more scorers around him. I don't think the spacing thing - or the perception of the 'spacing' thing - is the entire issue, it's also that Ricky is the 2nd or at least 3rd best scorer/playmaker on the team and that is far from his greatest skill. Though he can score a bit, his best attributes are his passing and feel for the game. He would be great to have alongside some more dynamic scorers to manage all the possessions, control/push pace, and get the ball to the correct spots. The more scoring he has to do, the less he can do some of those other things that he is better at. Find some people better equipped to get the ball in the bucket and Rubio will get to play to more of his strengths.

 

[jazzETX]

I agree that those 2 for 12's and 0 for 8's happen too often. I am a huge Ricky fan and I get tired of it as well. But the analysis for why that is happening has to be deeper than what we've seen here so far.

(Disclaimer: the rest of this post is not addressed at Candrew specifically, I'm not pointing him out)

One of the things that many people on this board seem to overlook when it comes to the Jazz offensive struggles (maybe it's lazyness, maybe it's lack of understanding / awareness, maybe it's just because it goes against their preferred narratives) is the fact that most guys on the team just refuse to take bad shots even when there's not a better option out there, which is why Donovan and Ricky end up shooting more than they should, and usually worse shots too. You just can't have the luxury of having so many guys like Rudy, Ingles, Korver, O'Neal or Exum focusing only on the shots they like, even when the team needs them to shoot in different situations. You can't have them passing up scoring opportunities only to dump the ball to Mitchell or Rubio under pressure and force them to take an even worse shot only because Rudy refuses to try anything other than scoring on a roll to the basket or off a put-back, and Ingles won't shoot a 3 unless he's got time to release the ball and is confident he can make it, and he won't look to score from two if he doesn't get a clear lane for a lay-up or the occasional teardrop. We see those instances dozens of times every week and it has a direct effect on the two guys that end up with the ball more often, not only because they are they main ballhandlers, but also because they are the most aggressive and unafraid to miss in those situations, because they understand eventually someone needs to take the shot.

This situation is what's lead Rubio to shoot 18.3 times per 100 possessions for the Jazz when he had only averaged 13.6 FGs per 100 for the Wolves, and a big reason why despite some pretty evident improvements in his game as a scorer, he continues to be so inconsistent and have those 2 for 12 nights. That's the reason why a guy like Joe Ingles, "one of the best shooters in the league", takes 66% of his shots being open (closest defender 4-6 feet from him) or wide-open (6+ feet) as per NBA data, which is almost as often as Rubio, a guy "that defenses constantly leave wide open". That's also a big reason why the offense gets so stagnant, so often, cause the starting C not only will not try to score from beyond 5 ft, but also has made just *11 shots all season* that are not lay-ups, dunks or tip-ins (and he's at 177 FGM!). So when you have good man-to-man defense from the other team, when your guys are tired or you're not moving the ball fast enough and can't find an open man, you don't have the possibility of dumping the ball into the post and running an inside-out offense, or simply waiting for your 7'2'' C to draw another defender, because everyone knows he won't even look at the basket.

This is not to say all of Rubio's and Mitchell's struggles are influenced by their teammates, but when you have a team that is lacking in so many areas offensively, when you have guys that are either gun-shy or flat-out trying to keep their %'s up, looking for a scapegoat or focussing on the guys that are more affected by those factors comes off as lazy, uninformed and, frankly, pretty dumb.

good post, but alot of it basically outlines why rubio is a poor fit. and alot of it also shows why allen should be getting more minutes when the offense stagnates. someone who will not pass up shots and can create offense other than mitchell (albeit less creatively/shifty than mitchell).