Ricky shoot around comments to media

[Saint Cy of JFC]

My observations/belief in this doesn't really have anything to do with Mitchell. If we had Lebron James instead of Mitchell I'd say the same thing: The team needs another primary ball-handler who can be a high usage player.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I don't think we are. I'm extremely hardline in that there has to be a starter who is above 20% usage and operates comfortably in that role.

Well if you can land Niko or Rudy Gay to play the 4 then you should be fine with a lower usage guard. Exum is over 20 as well.

The argument that we need Ricky because he has a higher usage and it’s valuable is not great... considering that the usage of the possessions is not great.

I just think when we describe a guard that is good at defense, can use a fair amount of possessions, is a little bigger than pg size, and is a good shooter you are describing Gary Harris on the low end and Brad Beal on the high end... maybe Brogdon if you squint a little but he’s not as versatile on defense as I’d like. I think it might be easier to get the shooting, defense and size and get usage somewhere else.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

My observations/belief in this doesn't really have anything to do with Mitchell. If we had Lebron James instead of Mitchell I'd say the same thing: The team needs another primary ball-handler who can be a high usage player.

So you need two primary ball handlers? I mean one would be a secondary handler right?

Whatever it is that we need... I’m pretty comfortable in saying Rubio ain’t it long term. Fine for the rest of the year... but I’m ready to move on.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Well if you can land Niko or Rudy Gay to play the 4 then you should be fine with a lower usage guard. Exum is over 20 as well.

The argument that we need Ricky because he has a higher usage and it’s valuable is not great... considering that the usage of the possessions is not great.

I just think when we describe a guard that is good at defense, can use a fair amount of possessions, is a little bigger than pg size, and is a good shooter you are describing Gary Harris on the low end and Brad Beal on the high end... maybe Brogdon if you squint a little but he’s not as versatile on defense as I’d like. I think it might be easier to get the shooting, defense and size and get usage somewhere else.

Yeah, I disagree again.

And I'm not arguing for Rubio.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

So you need two primary ball handlers? I mean one would be a secondary handler right?

Whatever it is that we need... I’m pretty comfortable in saying Rubio ain’t it long term. Fine for the rest of the year... but I’m ready to move on.

No, you can have two primaries.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah, I disagree again.

And I'm not arguing for Rubio.

K well I'm not sure what you are arguing then... Lamb aint no primary ball handler... My argument is that having a lower usage guard that shoots well and plays great defense is better than what Rubio provides. If what you are saying is we need a primary ball handler, with shooting and good defense... well that's pretty fuggin hard to find. Would be great... even ideal, but less realistic.

I have a feeling that if we got conley (who provides the stuff above) that we'd be undersized a bit... finding primary ball handlers with everything on the list is really hard... good luck.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

K well I'm not sure what you are arguing then... Lamb aint no primary ball handler... My argument is that having a lower usage guard that shoots well and plays great defense is better than what Rubio provides. If what you are saying is we need a primary ball handler, with shooting and good defense... well that's pretty fuggin hard to find. Would be great... even ideal, but less realistic.

I have a feeling that if we got conley (who provides the stuff above) that we'd be undersized a bit... finding primary ball handlers with everything on the list is really hard... good luck.

Yeah, that's why I said at the very least Lamb. Like he is the low bar for the kind of player we need in terms of being able to score/handle and still be a solid overall player.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

finding primary ball handlers with everything on the list is really hard... good luck.

Yeah bud, that's why Utah tried to trade for Conley and will most likely do so again this off-season.

 

[NAOS]

You guys are butting heads because of terminology, I think.

We need another player who can shoot, and who has enough floor game to put serious pressure on the rim. We need both of these facets in a bucket-getter. As long as this player has the sense for when to drive-and-kick, and some basic (but evolving) sense of how to run PnR, then we’re good.

Think of Tobias Harris. Dude isn’t a great playmaker, but still checks all these boxes (just like he did before this recent breakout he’s had). He knows when to move the ball, even if he isn’t close to Ingles-level wizardry.

To me, it doesn’t matter whether this hypothetical player is a 1, 2, 3, or 4.

(I’ll add that if he’s a 3 or a 4, I’d take Rubio back at good value.... but we likely **** in that bed for the shot at 31-yr old Conley... and that doesn’t make me happy. Whatevs.)

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah bud, that's why Utah tried to trade for Conley and will most likely do so again this off-season.

Exactly... we couldn’t even get the older, injury prone, possibly overpaid version of what we wanted... It is hard... and we failed... and honestly he doesn’t hit everything on my list cuz DM and Conley is an undersized back court.

The Conley ship has likely sailed. Harder to line things salary wise unless we throw in Exum with our space... which was the sticking point this go around... supposedly.

At some point you look at the better of two flawed roster compositions... I see 3 and D type as more attainable.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Exactly... we couldn’t even get the older, injury prone, possibly overpaid version of what we wanted... It is hard... and we failed... and honestly he doesn’t hit everything on my list cuz DM and Conley is an undersized back court.

The Conley ship has likely sailed. Harder to line things salary wise unless we throw in Exum with our space... which was the sticking point this go around... supposedly.

At some point you look at the better of two flawed roster compositions... I see 3 and D type as more attainable.

We failed because Memphis didnt feel pressure to do the deal and DL knows that mid-season acquisitions arent really worth it. The ability to acquire Conley and fully integrate him wasnt really worth it at the deadline. Maybe Memphis price comes down in the off-season, maybe it doesn't. Maybe other guys become available (Holiday could be depending on the package they get for Davis).

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

You guys are butting heads because of terminology, I think.

We need another player who can shoot, and who has enough floor game to put serious pressure on the rim. We need both of these facets in a bucket-getter. As long as this player has the sense for when to drive-and-kick, and some basic (but evolving) sense of how to run PnR, then we’re good.

Think of Tobias Harris. Dude isn’t a great playmaker, but still checks all these boxes (just like he did before this recent breakout he’s had). He knows when to move the ball, even if he isn’t close to Ingles-level wizardry.

To me, it doesn’t matter whether this hypothetical player is a 1, 2, 3, or 4.

(I’ll add that if he’s a 3 or a 4, I’d take Rubio back at good value.... but we likely **** in that bed for the shot at 31-yr old Conley... and that doesn’t make me happy. Whatevs.)

This is where I am... but I’m less of a Fan of Ricky’s game and think it will be time to move on... I just don’t think it hard a really fair chance with the Ricky Favs Rudy spacing issue... but we refused to change and I think we are too far down the road to give it a go now.

I do get the sense the Jazz front office was pissed how it played out in the media... I think we’d be reluctant to do business with their current front office.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

We failed because Memphis didnt feel pressure to do the deal and DL knows that mid-season acquisitions arent really worth it. The ability to acquire Conley and fully integrate him wasnt really worth it at the deadline. Maybe Memphis price comes down in the off-season, maybe it doesn't. Maybe other guys become available (Holiday could be depending on the package they get for Davis).

I don’t care why it failed... it failed. We didn’t have the goods to get a trade done... cuz those guys are tough to get... maybe we get one... but if not what’s the best alternative... I understand the ideal fit... what is the next most valuable alternative.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I don’t care why it failed... it failed. We didn’t have the goods to get a trade done... cuz those guys are tough to get... maybe we get one... but if not what’s the best alternative... I understand the ideal fit... what is the next most valuable alternative.

Uhh, the Jazz had the goods. Nearly everyone agreed the Jazz's package was good enough to get a deal done if Memphis was being reasonable.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Uhh, the Jazz had the goods. Nearly everyone agreed the Jazz's package was good enough to get a deal done if Memphis was being reasonable.

K... everyone agreed... except the only team that mattered... will be harder to complete a trade this offseason by mixing space and cobbling salary together. I’m fairly sure it is dead. Getting him for 3 playoffs is preferred over two... we ain’t coming up on our price and highly doubt they now come down.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

K... everyone agreed... except the only team that mattered... will be harder to complete a trade this offseason by mixing space and cobbling salary together. I’m fairly sure it is dead. Getting him for 3 playoffs is preferred over two... we ain’t coming up on our price and highly doubt they now come down.

No it wont....

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

No it wont....

Sure.

 

[LoPo]

Terrible analogy.

I had zero expectation that you would agree with anything I presented.

The point still stands. Mitchell started 6 games and did close to the same as a guy who has been a starting PG for most of the last 14 years.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Sure.

You can trade players into cap-space in the off-season. The Jazz can do Favors for Conley straight up.

 

[sgjazzfan]

I can't believe that this conversation is happening. Do you people (the ones that want to crucify Rubio and have Mitchell be the PG) understand the job of a Point Guard? I'm not some huge fan of Rubio, but having Mitchel as the PG is not the answer. A PG should have the capability of distributing the ball, and Mitchell's talents is to score. Of course Mitchell's efficiency plummeted when Rubio returned, but the efficiency of the rest of the team balanced out. Mitchell is no Point guard nor does he want to be. Nor should we want him to be. We want him moving without the ball because that's when he's the most productive contributing to the teams win shares.

Mitchell is a great passer. You surround him with more shooters and have PG defending him rather than taller SG, that will be good for him. He's also in his second year and never played PG before. He has a lot of upside there, more than he does as SG imo.