Roe v. Wade is going down

[fishonjazz]

In theory I don’t have a problem with abortions for birth defects, incest, or rape, but in practice the rape exception concerns me a bit because women lie. Our justice system is incredibly gynocentric. The family court system is notoriously biased against men, but even in the criminal courts men receive 63% longer sentences than women do for committing the same crime.

Even with as fundamentally structured as our system is to favor women, less than 1% of supposed rapes end in a felony conviction because 99% of the time women are full of crap. Remember that we are talking about women who want to kill their own children. Do you really think a woman like that will think killing her own child is fine, but saying “her truth” that isn’t the actual truth is inconceivable?

I fear that if making an allegation of rape is all that is needed to gain access to a professional who will kill her unwanted child, claims of rape will be like the claims of seeking asylum when border patrol catches those illegally crossing into the United States. It'll just be the thing they know to say. A lot more young men will wrongfully face charges of rape and the child will end up just as dead.

Wow


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[Al-O-Meter]

Is your other claim that only 1% of sexual assault accusations end up in a felony conviction? What exactly is that based on?

I can't take credit for the claim. It is a claim "according to an analysis by the nonprofit advocacy group RAINN (the Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network)" as published in the Washington Post. However, they do give the caveat: The organization’s website notes these figures are approximations, not scientific estimates, because their analysis “combines data from studies with different methodologies.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/10/06/less-than-percent-rapes-lead-felony-convictions-least-percent-victims-face-emotional-physical-consequences/

 

[Al-O-Meter]

And here I was thinking it was a man's world.

I will say that if you or a family member is ever falsely accused of rape, pray your jury is made up of women. Men will instinctively ‘white knight’ for a girl they see as in distress. I know someone who is involved in these types of investigations for law enforcement, and I have heard her say more than once “women know women; men only know what women want them to know”. I trust her on that.

 

[fishonjazz]

Weird thing to me is that republicans seem to be the party that is more anti abortion.

some of the biggest reason for abortions are:

1.) financial reasons. Moms cant afford to take care of the baby
2.) accidental pregnancy.
3.) the mother was raped/molested/sexually assaulted

Something that would help with number 1 are things like more social safety net type programs. Which republicans seem to be against.
Something that would help with number 2 are things like free/cheap birth control and easier access to it. Something republicans seem to be against. Also sex education. Something republicans seem to be against (dont talk about sex to my kids in school!!!)
Something that would help with number 3 are things like not electing presidents who have lost in court for sexual assault/dont enable rapists/sexual assaulters. Something republicans do. Trust women who say they have been raped/sexually assaulted. something republicans are against.

Its almost like republicans say they are against abortion but dont want the solutions to make less abortions happen unless those solutions also control the women.

 

[Nate505]

I can't take credit for the claim. It is a claim "according to an analysis by the nonprofit advocacy group RAINN (the Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network)" as published in the Washington Post. However, they do give the caveat: The organization’s website notes these figures are approximations, not scientific estimates, because their analysis “combines data from studies with different methodologies.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/10/06/less-than-percent-rapes-lead-felony-convictions-least-percent-victims-face-emotional-physical-consequences/

Ok, but if you dig slightly deeper in that article, the reason 1% of sexual assaults result in felony convictions isn't because women are just making tons of false accusations, it's due to a number of contributing factors:

1) According to this claim, 2/3rds don't report the crime at all., so how can anything result in a conviction if it wasn't reported. Just because they don't report the incident at all doesn't mean it didn't happen. There are many reasons these crimes aren't reported, from shame/embarrassment, the feeling the police won't do anything about it, reliving the trauma of the experience during a trial, etc.
2) Many of the ones that do report the crime don't go to trial due to a lack of evidence. That doesn't mean a crime happened or didn't happen, just that there's not enough evidence that a DA feels like a conviction will be made.
3) Once a case gets to trial, a defendant may be found not guilty for a couple of reasons: Lack of evidence to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt or evidence that he was falsely accused and he can prove innocence beyond a reasonable doubt,

So yeah, I can buy that claim a bit (or at least the general spirit of it), but you specifically said this:

Even with as fundamentally structured as our system is to favor women, less than 1% of supposed rapes end in a felony conviction because 99% of the time women are full of crap.

So your belief is that the reason a small number of sexual assaults end up in a felony conviction is because women "are full of crap," which I take as they are lying. Yet even in the study to support this claim that just isn't true. There are way more logical and reasonable reasons why the conviction rate is so low other than that women are making false accusations left and right.

 

[JazzGal]

I have heard that in any group of four women, at least one of them will have been raped. When I've asked friends or coworkers when in a group of four, it has been true every time. And none of them reported it because they knew they wouldn't be believed. I had never heard their stories before now.

Anyone who thinks that more than a tiny percentage lie must either be a man or a very sheltered woman, because almost every woman I know has had some sort of sexual assault. Even me.

So if almost every woman experiences some form of sexual assault, and very few actually report it, logic would dictate that millions of men are getting away with a lot of crime.

Men should quit pretending they know anything about women's issues. You keep getting it very wrong.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

I have heard that in any group of four women, at least one of them will have been raped. When I've asked friends or coworkers when in a group of four, it has been true every time. And none of them reported it because they knew they wouldn't be believed.

That tells you how common the claim is, not how common rape is. Making a claim of rape is a more potent version of playing the race card., Yes there are real sexual assaults and yes there are real instances of racism, but the overwhelming majority of the time the claim is made for some gain and the actual event wasn't actually as portrayed.

The claim that one in four women have been raped is a perfect example of why women should not be automatically believed. Every so often there is a serial rapist who strikes a community, and when it happens it is huge news. TV reporters go on location, residents get asked about their feelings or what they're doing to stay safe, and law enforcement makes statements. It is a big deal because that is actually real. If a quarter of a college town with a couple hundred thousand women residents had all been actually raped, then some creeper raping 8 women wouldn't make news. It does make news because the 50,000 raped women was just women making fake claims while the 8 that were victimized by the serial rapist are real.

Most claims of rape aren't reported to police for the simple reason of it being fake. Women aren't embarrassed or afraid they won't be believed. If they were then there would be no claim of rape, but there is a claim of rape and it is made to whomever the woman is seeking benefit from. They'll broadcast the claim on social media for thousands to see, but they don't go to the police because there is no benefit unless the rape was real and vast majority of the time it is not.

All claims of rape should be taken seriously and investigated. I truly believe that because sexual assault is a real and horrible thing that does happen, but the idea that all women should be believed on faith as if their claims were words from god is stupid. It leads to things like a 17-year old boy hanging himself because living through the backlash had become a thing he couldn't bear after a classmate, who later admitted she made a fake claim for no reason other than because she wanted to be included in the #MeToo in-group, made a false claim against him.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

There are way more logical and reasonable reasons why the conviction rate is so low other than that women are making false accusations left and right.

Nope. I can see you want to believe that, but the single most logical and reasonable reason for there being no conviction is because the accused didn't commit the crime. In the instances where a crime did take place, the conviction rate is extremely high. People want to believe women. Men want to believe women. Men who have been convicted of raping women are often killed in prison by fellow inmates. We do not have a societal problem with lack of wanting to protect women. There are women who like to paint themselves as victims to curry sympathy or avoid culpability, and few things draw a reaction as strong as claiming they were raped. Men will kill other men over it, and women know it. It is foolish to believe such a powerful tool is never abused.

 

[silesian]

If you want to carve out exceptions for debilitating birth defects then I'm open to listening, but that doesn't describe 99%+ of abortions.

You’re okay with murdering a person with a birth defect?

Seems that “abortion is always murder” position doesn’t allow for that type of wiggle room.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Trust women who say they have been raped/sexually assaulted. something republicans are against.

All people should be against it. We should not have a bigoted two tier justice system where women are innocent until proven guilty but men have to be assumed guilty.

 

[silesian]

Nope. I can see you want to believe that, but the single most logical and reasonable reason for there being no conviction is because the accused didn't commit the crime. In the instances where a crime did take place, the conviction rate is extremely high. People want to believe women. Men want to believe women. Men who have been convicted of raping women are often killed in prison by fellow inmates. We do not have a societal problem with lack of wanting to protect women. There are women who like to paint themselves as victims to curry sympathy or avoid culpability, and few things draw a reaction as strong as claiming they were raped. Men will kill other men over it, and women know it. It is foolish to believe such a powerful tool is never abused.

There is no evidence to back up any of your claims. Your source article completely debunks it.

 

[silesian]

If you are talking about abstract things like ideas and plans, or tangible things like humans, the word 'conception' mean to bring into existence. Your question is asking the difference between destroying a thing doesn't exist versus destroying a thing that does exist. One is ending a human life while the other is only averting potential. I certainly don't equate the ending of an existing, "concieved" human life and the destruction of what is nothing other than what could possibly be, but I also don't see the latter as entirely inconsequential, a thing to be dismissed as "okay". I think that is what has driven the societal norms of insisting that women and children go on the lifeboats first, and Hamas making claims over how many Palestinian women and children were killed to garner sympathy for their cause. The potential of future generations is not without value.

The preconception sperm and egg have 100% of a human.

Conception is a combination of chemical reaction that creates new molecules.