Roster Building From Here - FA and Summer of 2023

[fishonjazz]

You think if he got out of the shadow of Tatum he would become better than he is? I bet he is tired of playing 2nd fiddle as Tatum is the media darling there.

I dont really care if he would be better. He good enough as is


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[Saint Cy of JFC]

If you lose Clarkson, could sign DiVcenzo.

Having a decent year with GSW. Been shooting it really well and defends.

Max Strus would be a good pick up as well. Having a down year shooting, but can shoot and isnt a terrible defender.

 

[Tom349]

Dude... Danny Ainge just literally cleared cap. There was no question those trades were available during this deadline... but thats not the direction. He is not gonna stuff it again with Bertans and Robinson et al contracts.

I can tell you 100% sure they are not planning to tank next year. They will keep adding young talent and wait for FA/trade opportunities for key pieces.

**** me. Some of you have shocking comprehension.

I literally stated in my post that I don't like our options in free agency. We can either get vets who don't improve us and take game time away from our young players (Kessler, Ochai, Jazz Pick, Minny Pick) or we can over pay for Kuzma and Grant which I don't like either player for the role they would expect. For me the best use of cap space would be to take on bad contracts (nothing crippling) and help other teams out at their expense of a first round draft pick. Those guys can offer vet presence but also not take too many minutes away from the guys we need to develop which is what will be the main goal next season. Won't be a case of tanking but we're not winning many games with potentially 4 first/second year players getting major minutes, especially given how strong the west is.

Bertans and Lowry are out of contract at the end of next season. Robinson is the only really bad contract but even he will be movable by the time we decide to go all in once the salary cap increases in a couple of seasons. THJ is pretty easy contract to move. We will still have plenty of cap space for the following free agency period which is a far better group of out of contract players.

The main reason Danny made cleared that cap space is he now has even more flexibility (it was only Conley who was eating our salary space for next season). If any opportunity arises he can pivot into a win now move but more than likely that won't happen and we have a team that largely resembles the team we have this season but with more young players.

 

[YoungJefe]

If we miss on Vic and Scoot I hope we can somehow land Brandon Miller and Cason Wallace.

 

[HermanG]

**** me. Some of you have shocking comprehension.

I literally stated in my post that I don't like our options in free agency. We can either get vets who don't improve us and take game time away from our young players (Kessler, Ochai, Jazz Pick, Minny Pick) or we can over pay for Kuzma and Grant which I don't like either player for the role they would expect. For me the best use of cap space would be to take on bad contracts (nothing crippling) and help other teams out at their expense of a first round draft pick. Those guys can offer vet presence but also not take too many minutes away from the guys we need to develop which is what will be the main goal next season. Won't be a case of tanking but we're not winning many games with potentially 4 first/second year players getting major minutes, especially given how strong the west is.

Bertans and Lowry are out of contract at the end of next season. Robinson is the only really bad contract but even he will be movable by the time we decide to go all in once the salary cap increases in a couple of seasons. THJ is pretty easy contract to move. We will still have plenty of cap space for the following free agency period which is a far better group of out of contract players.

The main reason Danny made cleared that cap space is he now has even more flexibility (it was only Conley who was eating our salary space for next season). If any opportunity arises he can pivot into a win now move but more than likely that won't happen and we have a team that largely resembles the team we have this season but with more young players.

How is my comprehension lacking? You literally contradict yourself inside your own post (see bolded parts)... and also repeated the argument I made opposing your idea.

DA at trade deadline:
"Hey I know, instead of going full tank lets instead just free some future cap space so that we are in position to make moves next offseason!"
DA in the offseason 4 months later:
"Hey I know, lets stuff our cap space so that we cannot make moves until 2025 or something!"

Compared to Conley, those THJ, Lowry, Bertans and Robinson are ALL worse value/money contracts. They are negative contracts that the curret teams cannot get rid of without giving picks (which is your point for making those trades in the first place!!!!). Now if we got those guys, we would be stuck to tanking with a team that is too good to tank properly but too tied up moneywise to build a playoff roster.

Also even the full tank bottom of NBA teams who have cap space arent touching that Robinson contract unless Miami pays a hefty price.

 

[Tom349]

How is my comprehension lacking? You literally contradict yourself inside your own post (see bolded parts)... and also repeated the argument I made opposing your idea.

DA at trade deadline:
"Hey I know, instead of going full tank lets instead just free some future cap space so that we are in position to make moves next offseason!"
DA in the offseason 4 months later:
"Hey I know, lets stuff our cap space so that we cannot make moves until 2025 or something!"

Compared to Conley, those THJ, Lowry, Bertans and Robinson are ALL worse value/money contracts. They are negative contracts that the curret teams cannot get rid of without giving picks (which is your point for making those trades in the first place!!!!). Now if we got those guys, we would be stuck to tanking with a team that is too good to tank properly but too tied up moneywise to build a playoff roster.

Also even the full tank bottom of NBA teams who have cap space arent touching that Robinson contract unless Miami pays a hefty price.

How have I contradicted myself.

Conley was guaranteed money next season and was our bad contract which we had to give picks to get off, with him we couldn't do anything in free agency but also couldn't absorb a bad contract without sending money back. We can now go in either direction. Their might be a player who Danny likes in free agency and we secure or like most years we strike out in free agency and need to do something with our cap space.

We are not stuffing any future cap space, Robinson deal is the only one that is long term and won't look anywhere near as bad once the salary cap rises as expected (last year not fully guaranteed either). The rest of the deals either finish next season or a player like THJ who is easily moved.

LMAO at being too good to tank. With the exception of our unexpected start we have been every bit one of the worst teams in the west. With no Conley, potentially no Clarkson and KO we will be even worse, the guys I propose we bring in are considerable downgrades. We should finish this season with the third worst record in the west, a full season without those players above and that is likely a record closer to that of Houston and SA. Factor in more minutes for developing players and next season we won't be anywhere near a play in spot.

 

[HermanG]

How have I contradicted myself.

Conley was guaranteed money next season and was our bad contract which we had to give picks to get off, with him we couldn't do anything in free agency but also couldn't absorb a bad contract without sending money back. We can now go in either direction. Their might be a player who Danny likes in free agency and we secure or like most years we strike out in free agency and need to do something with our cap space.

We are not stuffing any future cap space, Robinson deal is the only one that is long term and won't look anywhere near as bad once the salary cap rises as expected (last year not fully guaranteed either). The rest of the deals either finish next season or a player like THJ who is easily moved.

LMAO at being too good to tank. With the exception of our unexpected start we have been every bit one of the worst teams in the west. With no Conley, potentially no Clarkson and KO we will be even worse, the guys I propose we bring in are considerable downgrades. We should finish this season with the third worst record in the west, a full season without those players above and that is likely a record closer to that of Houston and SA. Factor in more minutes for developing players and next season we won't be anywhere near a play in spot.

I pointed out clear and obvious how you contradicted yourself. You say we wanted to create space and flexibility only to take away that space and flexibility in the offseason. We sold cheap to get that Lakers pick + Russ contract over various other options we were rumored to have. We didnt clear cap space just to use it for bad contracts. We just wanted that asset and cap space to be in position to improve going forward.

And you contradicted yourself again in that last post. "We are gonna be bad without Conley" and "We had to pay to get rid of Conley's contract"... how does that combination of thoughts make sense? Is Conley a player who can elevate a team or not?

Also about not stuffing any future cap space.... dude what is your source for contract info!? Its not the same as mine for sure. Or is your idea of future something that only starts after 24/25 season? Those contracts you mentioned eat almost 50M of cap in 24/25 season. Not to mention that 80M hit in 23/24 which would completely take us out of any big name trades that could become available during next 16+ months.

It is so blatantly obvious what DA is doing and they have even been 100% honest about the direction and what they are looking to do going forward.... and their actions support that. Yet you are saying they are suddenly gonna reverse course completely based on nothing except the fact you dont like guys on FA. Like DA doesnt know who is gonna be on the market...

Also for the record... if Danny is trying to tank he must be the *****ies GM ever to do that. We have won 2 of 3 since the trade deadline playing all 3 games on the road. Too good to tank is what we are now, and we will be better next year and even worse at tanking.

 

[Tom349]

I pointed out clear and obvious how you contradicted yourself. You say we wanted to create space and flexibility only to take away that space and flexibility in the offseason. We sold cheap to get that Lakers pick + Russ contract over various other options we were rumored to have. We didnt clear cap space just to use it for bad contracts. We just wanted that asset and cap space to be in position to improve going forward.

And you contradicted yourself again in that last post. "We are gonna be bad without Conley" and "We had to pay to get rid of Conley's contract"... how does that combination of thoughts make sense? Is Conley a player who can elevate a team or not?

Also about not stuffing any future cap space.... dude what is your source for contract info!? Its not the same as mine for sure. Or is your idea of future something that only starts after 24/25 season? Those contracts you mentioned eat almost 50M of cap in 24/25 season. Not to mention that 80M hit in 23/24 which would completely take us out of any big name trades that could become available during next 16+ months.

It is so blatantly obvious what DA is doing and they have even been 100% honest about the direction and what they are looking to do going forward.... and their actions support that. Yet you are saying they are suddenly gonna reverse course completely based on nothing except the fact you dont like guys on FA. Like DA doesnt know who is gonna be on the market...

Also for the record... if Danny is trying to tank he must be the *****ies GM ever to do that. We have won 2 of 3 since the trade deadline playing all 3 games on the road. Too good to tank is what we are now, and we will be better next year and even worse at tanking.

I haven't contradicted myself one bit you idiot. Flexibility allows us to possibly land a good player free agency, land a couple of decent players or use it to take on bad contracts. My idea would be help accomodate teams making moves in free agency on the basis we are not able to attract any one with our offers. We aren't locked in any direction which is what we would have been had we kept Conley. How ****ing hard is that to understand?

Again haven't contradicted myself. Conley makes us a better team, he also had little trade value given he is on 22m a year, injury prone and 35 years old. There countless examples of players making teams better but not being worth the cost.

Lowry contract expires end of the next season same with Bertans provided he plays less than 75% of games. Those two alone would free up 47m in cap space at the end of next season, Gay and THT expirings would free up an additional 17m. A whooping 62m of cap space for the 24/25 free agency period. THJ expires the year after and again is not a crippling contract, in fact a pretty valuable player for his contract at that point, can be easily moved to free up more cap space. Robinson expires the year after that although can be brought out as he only has 9.7m guaranteed in the his final year, by which time the NBA salary cap will be much higher and you could give him away for a couple of second round picks.

How do their actions support that? If being good was really the objective we don't make the trade for Westbrook. This is ****ing Utah, when did we last pick up a good free agent? The likelihood is we have two top 15 picks from this years draft playing significant minutes next season in addition to Kessler and Ochai. Danny isn't putting out a team to win next season, espeically when our only pick is top 10 protected. It will be about development, he might find someone in free agency that helps push the time line forward for the following season but thats incredibly unlikely given the options on the market. Trading for guys like Lowry and THJ isn't a tanking move either. We likely don't improve or get worse, we simply get compensated for helping other teams complete the deals they feel they need to do to improve.

We beat a **** pacers teams that is trying to lose and a disjointed raptors team.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

If being good was really the objective we don't make the trade for Westbrook.

We literally have the most efficient offensive player in the league and he's getting almost 40 minutes per game lately.

Does that make sense to you? Why not 30 minutes for Lauri? How about 28? I mean, he's already an All Star... he could use the "rest", right? We're not trying to win anyway.

Nah. When you're trying to win, you play a guy like that as much as possible. And that's what Hardy is doing.

I love how the tankers simply can't explain Lauri away. As long as he's getting crazy minutes and producing like he is, he's the elephant in the room.

 

[HermanG]

I haven't contradicted myself one bit you idiot. Flexibility allows us to possibly land a good player free agency, land a couple of decent players or use it to take on bad contracts. My idea would be help accomodate teams making moves in free agency on the basis we are not able to attract any one with our offers. We aren't locked in any direction which is what we would have been had we kept Conley. How ****ing hard is that to understand?

Again haven't contradicted myself. Conley makes us a better team, he also had little trade value given he is on 22m a year, injury prone and 35 years old. There countless examples of players making teams better but not being worth the cost.

Lowry contract expires end of the next season same with Bertans provided he plays less than 75% of games. Those two alone would free up 47m in cap space at the end of next season, Gay and THT expirings would free up an additional 17m. A whooping 62m of cap space for the 24/25 free agency period. THJ expires the year after and again is not a crippling contract, in fact a pretty valuable player for his contract at that point, can be easily moved to free up more cap space. Robinson expires the year after that although can be brought out as he only has 9.7m guaranteed in the his final year, by which time the NBA salary cap will be much higher and you could give him away for a couple of second round picks.

How do their actions support that? If being good was really the objective we don't make the trade for Westbrook. This is ****ing Utah, when did we last pick up a good free agent? The likelihood is we have two top 15 picks from this years draft playing significant minutes next season in addition to Kessler and Ochai. Danny isn't putting out a team to win next season, espeically when our only pick is top 10 protected. It will be about development, he might find someone in free agency that helps push the time line forward for the following season but thats incredibly unlikely given the options on the market. Trading for guys like Lowry and THJ isn't a tanking move either. We likely don't improve or get worse, we simply get compensated for helping other teams complete the deals they feel they need to do to improve.

We beat a **** pacers teams that is trying to lose and a disjointed raptors team.

I see where you are coming from, but obviously we completely disagree with the direction and both can twist the narrative our own way. So this is kinda pointless to debate about.

Still disagree about the Conely part, since we had multiple callers from teams who were on the buyer side of things. They saw Conley as a cheap upgrade, and I'm 100% sure we had SRP deals on the table but Danny rightfully doesnt give a fk about some Clippers future second rounders. He was never a dump.

As for their actions supporting what they say... they traded away 2 pieces that didnt fit (Beasley and Vando) and 3rd (Conley) who wasnt going to be in our championship window. The most telling thing however was that they didnt trade away Clarkson and KO. Justify keeping those two based on your tanking logic. If I wanted to tank, I sell them both for the highest bidder for sure. I mean we were what 2 games above Indy at the deadline?

 

[HermanG]

We literally have the most efficient offensive player in the league and he's getting almost 40 minutes per game lately.

Does that make sense to you? Why not 30 minutes for Lauri? How about 28? I mean, he's already an All Star... he could use the "rest", right? We're not trying to win anyway.

Nah. When you're trying to win, you play a guy like that as much as possible. And that's what Hardy is doing.

I love how the tankers simply can't explain Lauri away. As long as he's getting crazy minutes and producing like he is, he's the elephant in the room.

He can push that narrative and it makes sense in the way he presents that. But it doesn't mean he is right. Most in here know we are not gonna become the contract garbage bin of the league next offseason.. if we wanted to deep dive into the bottom then we would have to trade Lauri to achieve that.

 

[Tom349]

We literally have the most efficient offensive player in the league and he's getting almost 40 minutes per game lately.

Does that make sense to you? Why not 30 minutes for Lauri? How about 28? I mean, he's already an All Star... he could use the "rest", right? We're not trying to win anyway.

Nah. When you're trying to win, you play a guy like that as much as possible. And that's what Hardy is doing.

I love how the tankers simply can't explain Lauri away. As long as he's getting crazy minutes and producing like he is, he's the elephant in the room.

Its not black and white. Hardy is going to want to win as a coach, the players are going to want to win, Danny Ainge wants to develop a winning culture but at the same time knows that means **** all if you don't have the talent to actually win the grand prize. Not all tanks jobs are created equally. Even at Boston Danny never created a team that was intentionally bad which my trade suggestions don't create an intentionally bad team, but he was definitely ruthless and was committed to giving guys opportunity before trading them at their peak value. He didn't have to deliberately sit guys out like the tanking job OKC and Philly did.