Rudy Gobert has got to go

[Piso]

Stats +/- (82 games.com) (only the 20 most used compositions) (november 12) :
Rubio-Favors-Gobert : 203 min ; rating : -69 disastrous
Rubio-Favors : 163 min ; rating : -33 bad
Rubio-Gobert : 68 min ; rating : +34 very good
Favors-Gobert : 21 min ; rating : +6 average
Only Rubio : 21 min ; rating : +25 excellent
Only Favors : 78 min ; rating : +15 average
Only Gobert : 13 min ; rating : +4 average
Sans Rubio/Favors/Gobert : 49 min ; rating : +45 excellent

Sorry it was after 15 games
Update (with NBA.com) after 27 games and 1301 min (1OT) :
Utah Jazz scores : 2783-2698 (+85)
Rubio-Favors-Gobert : 226 min ; rating : -75,5
Rubio-Favors : 269,3 min ; rating : +17,1
Rubio-Gobert : 147,2 min ; rating : +19,9
Favors-Gobert : 36,8 min ; rating : +23,8
Only Rubio : 107,3 min ; rating : +10,9
Only Favors : 216,3 min ; rating : +75,3
Only Gobert : 98,6 min ; rating : -23,6
Sans Rubio/Favors/Gobert : 199,5 min ; rating : +37,4

 

[LoPo]

Good lord the bickering.

We just lost a good player who was an unrestricted free agent. Why the hell trade Gobert then risk losing Favors for nothing.

Just. Trade. Favors.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[franklin]

Even when Rudy was firing on all cylinders and when the schedule wasn't so tough, has there ever been an extended offensive output with him on the court, as we saw in November? Obviously some of the players have changed, but the fluid way the offense was running in November is undeniable. How much Rudy and his absence is related to the output is debatable, but I'm sure it had at least some effect. In November, Favors was engaged and held up to the Deandre Jordan's of the NBA just fine when going solo. The contract situation of Favors and Rudy points to Gobert remaining with the team over Favors though.

It was fully obvious that the offense played much better but the defense lacked the Gobert factor. Other teams attacked and scored on Favors in ways that Gobert clearly would have stopped. And Favors is a good rim protector. Gobert's defense is insane and he is mildly worse than Favors in the PnR.

Trading Gobert would be an option if there were any confidence in Favors' health. Gobert's our best asset and would fetch a great return in the right scenario. DL isn't going to find that perfect scenario.

 

[Quin's Murderface]

I never thought I'd see the day when Jazz fans would want to trade Rudy Gobert a year after an All-NBA season just as he's entering his prime and locked up for 4 years. I just can't believe how short sighted you have to be to look at that cupcake stretch of only six games with GOAT shooting performances from Ingles/Mitchell/Jerebko/Burks and think that Rudy was the weak link all along lol. We truly have some really uneducated basketball fans. Luckily for all of the rest of us Gobert isn't going anywhere. Our best hope is a trade that frees up Quin to have an easy decision to make about a good lineup for Rudy and Mitchell to thrive.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Good lord the bickering.

We just lost a good player who was an unrestricted free agent. Why the hell trade Gobert then risk losing Favors for nothing.

Just. Trade. Favors.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

I agree with this to some extent. If they were both under contract for the same amount of time then I think there is some debate. But Favors is unrestricted at the end of the year.

The Jazz either need to decide he is apart of their future and can play with Rudy and make sure Favors wants to stay or trade him at the deadline. Unless a great trade comes up earlier we are not trading him until then though.

Frankly I think the team is not committed to Favors anymore either due to him wanting to move on due to his role or not liking the fit for some reason. I really like Favors but I am leaning towards him getting traded. But I might change my mind again once we get a fully healthy team and see what they can do. Favors and Gobert have not really played much together this season and have hardly played together without Rubio. Frankly Rubio and Gobert have not played together much to get things going. It takes a good 20+ games to get rythym together according to many players and they have not had that. We also have not had Hood to help with a lot of our offensive problems.

I would really like to see Mitchell Hood Inlges Favors and Gobert play a decent amount together and see what they can do. Favors and Gobert can play together and have proven that over the last few years over and over. They either need to play together without Rubio, need more time together with Rubio to get chemistry, need a shooting PG, or stagger them for now and plan on trading Favors at the deadline if a somewhat reasonable deal come in.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I never thought I'd see the day when Jazz fans would want to trade Rudy Gobert a year after an All-NBA season just as he's entering his prime and locked up for 4 years. I just can't believe how short sighted you have to be to look at that cupcake stretch of only six games with GOAT shooting performances from Ingles/Mitchell/Jerebko/Burks and think that Rudy was the weak link all along lol. We truly have some really uneducated basketball fans. Luckily for all of the rest of us Gobert isn't going anywhere. Our best hope is a trade that frees up Quin to have an easy decision to make about a good lineup for Rudy and Mitchell to thrive.

I agree, but this board is all over the place after every win or loss. We have a lot of roller coaster fans.

Frankly I would consider trading any of our players at any time depending on the trade. But no team is going to offer their franchise player for Gobert and that is what it would take for me to be okay with trading him.

So, no there isnt much of a reason to discuss trading Gobert. Unless the he is unhappy and wants out, which does not appear to be the case. We do need to get him healthy and playing well again though.

 

[Spinoza]

Obviously the thread title is ridiculous. At the same time, the Gobert homerism often goes too far here. It'd be nice if people could at least admit that there are times where he appears to make the offense significantly worse.

 

[fishonjazz]

Obviously the thread title is ridiculous. At the same time, the Gobert homerism often goes too far here. It'd be nice if people could at least admit that there are times where he appears to make the offense significantly worse.

I admit that there are times when he makes the offense worse.
I think there are times when every player on the team makes the offense wrose though.

 

[Spinoza]

Are there any stats geeks that can make sense of this? Gobert has a terrific offensive rating and offensive win shares. However, his offensive box plus/minus is pretty poor. What does that mean?

edit: I'm interpreting is as his offensive efficiency numbers are good, but the team as a whole doesn't do great offensively with him on the floor. I'm not sure if this is a good interpretation though.

 

[Spinoza]

Stats +/- (82 games.com) (only the 20 most used compositions) (november 12) :
Rubio-Favors-Gobert : 203 min ; rating : -69 disastrous
Rubio-Favors : 163 min ; rating : -33 bad
Rubio-Gobert : 68 min ; rating : +34 very good
Favors-Gobert : 21 min ; rating : +6 average
Only Rubio : 21 min ; rating : +25 excellent
Only Favors : 78 min ; rating : +15 average
Only Gobert : 13 min ; rating : +4 average
Sans Rubio/Favors/Gobert : 49 min ; rating : +45 excellent

Be really careful drawing conclusions from this. For example, Jazz are +45 without Rubio, Favors, or Gobert. Have to trade all three then right? Except those minutes are probably entirely in garbage time when the outcome of the game is already decided and the scrubs from the other team are in. These stats don't into account opponent quality (of individual matchups or as a whole), whether the game was a back-to-back, whether or not Mitchell was having an awesome night or laying bricks, etc... Honestly, I'd say they're pretty much worthless. I seriously doubt any analytics groups at the professional level would take them seriously.

 

[Archie Moses]

I never thought I'd see the day when Jazz fans would want to trade Rudy Gobert a year after an All-NBA season just as he's entering his prime and locked up for 4 years. I just can't believe how short sighted you have to be to look at that cupcake stretch of only six games with GOAT shooting performances from Ingles/Mitchell/Jerebko/Burks and think that Rudy was the weak link all along lol. We truly have some really uneducated basketball fans. Luckily for all of the rest of us Gobert isn't going anywhere. Our best hope is a trade that frees up Quin to have an easy decision to make about a good lineup for Rudy and Mitchell to thrive.

To be fair, I think people are looking at the times he has played more than the cupcake stretch he didn't.

 

[Quin's Murderface]

To be fair, I think people are looking at the times he has played more than the cupcake stretch he didn't.

The times he played like last year when he was All-NBA 2nd team? When he was top 10 in most advanced stats? Or the small stretch of games where he was forced to play in a lineup with no spacing at the beginning of this season?