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'Scientific Research is flawed-- and it's time we embrace it'

  • Thread starter Thread starter Deleted member 848
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Here's the Dalamaintnuthin blueprint:

franklin makes a casual observation.

Dal builds an end o teh world strawman and demands I provide a solution to it.

I laugh it off.

Dal fanatically searches for results driven studies to site, claims to be an expert in the field, and uses appeal to authority fallacy while telling me he knows everything and I know nothing.

I again laugh it off and make fun of his childish naivete.

Dal again demands I site sources and declares victory since I apparently don't care for his chosen papers.



Did I miss any steps in your derailment Dal?
 
Studies show that cancer rates, premature births and miscarriages, and heart disease result from fear peddlers scaring the **** out of everyone with science. Why is Dal killing unborn babies?
 
franklin said:
franklin makes a inaccurate observation

Dal points out it is inaccurate.

franklin loses his ****, insults Dal, makes vague generalizations while asserting these points as factual

Dal points out how the majority of the academic world disagrees with his viewpoints

franklin laughs it off, as he believes to possess a level of knowledge above the entire academic body of oncological epidemiology

Dal suggests that franklin goes through specific academic papers with specific critiques so franklin can properly convey why he thinks that contemporary ontological epidemiology is 100% inaccurate



Instead of taking up the offer, franklin resorts to trolling and more Dal-insults
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A more accurate representation of today's dialogue.
 
babe said:
having a good weekend?
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it's not his weekend-- I got in a discussion with him on the Jazz forum a few months ago that he got seemingly got super upset about-- and ever since then, he's been acting like this every conversation I have with him. Not sure what his deal is.

Either way-- I've been able to maintain conversations, dialogues, and friendships with a wide variety of posters here despite how different my personality & opinions might be from them. I really don't give a **** if franklin can't carry out a conversation with me without calling me naive, childish, or Al Sharpton.Not sure what I've done to him.
 
dalamon said:
A more accurate representation of today's dialogue.
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Franklin is sleeping in the little shed outback tonight, angry at the whole world. At least he has his ipad, and some beer.

Usually I am in the shed, without beer, and carrying on the good fight against all authoritarian regimes, large and small. As every teenager knows, you're just another brick in the wall. Not you, personally, exactly, but whoever has the chalk and is drawing stuff on the chalkboard.
 
franklin said:
What is that? Haven't had a weekend in 10 years.
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It can't be all that bad. I know you're not in prison. I've been visiting a friend in prison lately. . . well, he hasn't had his trial, yet, so it's called jail. You don't know what the bottom of life looks like until you're in Max.

Weekend or no, life is good outside.

If Dal was in the cell next to you, you wouldn't care what he says, it's better thank reading comics a thousand times.
 
One thing that might be different between me and Dal is the way we read. Dal seems to place a pretty high value on what gets printed, eager to absorb what's there and willing to call it knowledge or fact. I guess I've grown a bit jaded after so many years of that. I will note the experimental procedures and see how well-constructed it was, and wish I had funds to do it different. I am not so eager to believe, and I have lots of questions, but sometimes I am very glad to see something I think is well-done, and with some discussion that I think improves my own understanding. I do hold some misgivings about the political uses of science, or what it all means we as a society or as a nation or a world should do. I think Franklin is more on my page here, just trying to balance out Dal's enthusiasm and poke some barbs as his level of self-assurance.

I'm English, by some measures, and given to high-handed insults and practiced poses of superiority to everyone. I guess I don't do it right, because I don't have enough contempt for the whole damn universe to make teatime more important that doing some more work. Franklin, like Napolean, is a Corsican gutter rat. But smart.
 
dalamon said:
it's not his weekend-- I got in a discussion with him on the Jazz forum a few months ago that he got seemingly got super upset about-- and ever since then, he's been acting like this every conversation I have with him. Not sure what his deal is.

Either way-- I've been able to maintain conversations, dialogues, and friendships with a wide variety of posters here despite how different my personality & opinions might be from them. I really don't give a **** if franklin can't carry out a conversation with me without calling me naive, childish, or Al Sharpton.Not sure what I've done to him.
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Do you honestly want me to take you seriously? Srs question. You take latitude to assume and infer everything possible in what I write and go on tirades about it, then expect me to treat you with respect?

You can't play the victim card here. Don't pull that ******** that I had some beef with you in the Jazz forum months back. I apologized to you for being an *** and you're still holding that over my head??? I don't even remember what that was about. Hold it against me some more and continue putting words into my mouth.
 
dalamon said:
What about some lifting cancer rates in children & in people 15-30?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Idk, just made an observation. If my observation is wrong feel free to beat me over the head with it.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Idk, just made an observation. If my observation is wrong feel free to beat me over the head with it.
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nobody likes cancer, really.

I know what, lets do more research on biocomputation and tissue culture, and make new bodies we can just transplant our brains in?
 
How about congress cutting funding to social and geosciences by 16% in order to limit studies that could benefit social and climate change programs?
 
Carbon13 said:
How about congress cutting funding to social and geosciences by 16% in order to limit studies that could benefit social and climate change programs?
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No pup with a teat wants to let go, really. But mother nature has got that worked out. Mother's milk is laced with natural sedatives, and the pups will get full stomachs, and then get dopey again and fall asleep.

*******

research grants don't work like that.

********
 
babe said:
One thing that might be different between me and Dal is the way we read. Dal seems to place a pretty high value on what gets printed, eager to absorb what's there and willing to call it knowledge or fact. I guess I've grown a bit jaded after so many years of that. I will note the experimental procedures and see how well-constructed it was, and wish I had funds to do it different. I am not so eager to believe, and I have lots of questions, but sometimes I am very glad to see something I think is well-done, and with some discussion that I think improves my own understanding. I do hold some misgivings about the political uses of science, or what it all means we as a society or as a nation or a world should do. I think Franklin is more on my page here, just trying to balance out Dal's enthusiasm and poke some barbs as his level of self-assurance.

I'm English, by some measures, and given to high-handed insults and practiced poses of superiority to everyone. I guess I don't do it right, because I don't have enough contempt for the whole damn universe to make teatime more important that doing some more work. Franklin, like Napolean, is a Corsican gutter rat. But smart.
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You're a little mistaken. I don't blindly follow the claims of every paper. I understand that scientists have a vested interest in making certain claims in order to advance their careers-- sometimes traversing serious ethical boundaries as a consequence. I saw this a couple times while I completed my Genetics degree-- geneticists being staunchly pro-IVF, sex-selection, and wanting to sequence the genome of every born child-- largely out of financial self-interests. These sorts of things exist in every academic field. I'm not a moron.


However, what I am NOT going to do, is to take this phenomenon, paint with a broad brush, and dismiss very robust scientific studies that bring any sort of proposal that goes against my worldview. That's what a lot of Americans do, I'm afraid. That's why I asked Franklin to point out specific critiques with some of the studies he was loosely dismissing. If the studies are problematic, it should be easy to point out why. It's lazy, buzzword-filled dismissiveness.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
franklin said:
Do you honestly want me to take you seriously? Srs question. You take latitude to assume and infer everything possible in what I write and go on tirades about it, then expect me to treat you with respect?
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Definitely an exaggeration (shocked)

You can't play the victim card here. Don't pull that ******** that I had some beef with you in the Jazz forum months back. I apologized to you for being an *** and you're still holding that over my head??? I don't even remember what that was about. Hold it against me some more and continue putting words into my mouth.
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I'm just pointing out something that I noticed. I don't think I've ever had you insult me in a post before that day-- and every conversation we've had since then has included demeaning Vocab from you in one shape or form. I haven't really changed my posting style, at all, since then. Maybe it's a coincidence-- I don't know. I'm not trying to hold anything against you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
dalamon said:
You're a little mistaken. I don't blindly follow the claims of every paper. I understand that scientists have a vested interest in making certain claims in order to advance their careers-- sometimes traversing serious ethical boundaries as a consequence. I saw this a couple times while I completed my Genetics degree-- geneticists being staunchly pro-IVF, sex-selection, and wanting to sequence the genome of every born child-- largely out of financial self-interests. These sorts of things exist in every academic field. I'm not a moron.


However, what I am NOT going to do, is to take this phenomenon, paint with a broad brush, and dismiss very robust scientific studies that bring any sort of proposal that goes against my worldview. That's what a lot of Americans do, I'm afraid. That's why I asked Franklin to point out specific critiques with some of the studies he was loosely dismissing. If the studies are problematic, it should be easy to point out why. It's lazy, buzzword-filled dismissiveness.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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This statement is what I call a "Home Run"
absolutely.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to dalamon again.
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For any of you outsiders out there, I'd be on the same position if I were in that field of study.

As much as we can understand genetics, I'd like to see us have the ethical determination to respect it, and not just jump in with all our vaunted technology and make a mess of the living world. . . .before we even have a clue what the downstream consequences can be. . . .

I've seen quite a few hissy-fits in seminars where someone was presenting some research results and a number of skeptics just want to make every objection possible, but in that setting you sorta need to have some reason you can clearly state for your doubts or issues.

In regard to my being "a little mistaken" here, I have to grant Dal the point he makes. He does make his case.
 
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