Serious question: Why are people rooting for the Jazz to win this year?

[green]

The point to remember is not every team will be an OKC and have a Kevin Durant led squad that can suck ***, stockpile lottery picks and then suddenly figure out how to win the following season. The Jazz aren't the first team in the history of the NBA to trade a superstar and attempt to rebuild around young talent. There have been numerous crash and burn scenarios with teams that at the time had more assets and a better looking young nucleus than the Jazz have now. Just because something looks good on paper - there have been far too many failures using this method to take any season for granted.

Also, the Jazz are a great organization. They aren't the Clippers or Timberwolves or even the Bulls. They are run better. In fact, the only better run organizational may be the Spurs.

Second, Utah is in a great situation ala OKC. We have two very good young players in Favors and Hayward. We have two very promising players in Kanter and Burks. If we get a top three pick AND GS's pick, that will give us three top three picks, and two more lottery picks. Memo is coming off the books. Jefferson and Bell and CJ are next. Utah has talent, they have cap room, we are in a time that the Jazz can become legit title contenders in a screwed up system or they can be middle of the pack for the next ten years (when the next lockout happens).

Me, I'll take one crappy year, when we have no shot to win anything anyways, then 10 crappy years, knowing we can never get the talent the big market teams can because we just had to be scrappy and come in 9th place one year. That will Jefferson's legacy before he leaves, and that will be the reason why we will be trading Favors for picks in six years. No thanks.

 

[vslice02]

Tanking the season and drafting a Durant or Kobe hurts us? Lol. Ask San Antonio how that hurt them. Ask OKC how that hurt them. Ask Cleveland how drafting LeBron hurt. Your argument is a cop-out. It's a short season. We aren't very good. Heck, I would argue rewarding Jefferson and Bell with minutes hurts morale more than losing. This is an opportunity for Utah to actually become a legit title contender the only way they can; through the draft. We aren't getting any free agents, and if we do not draft a superstar this year, we will lose Favors, Hayward, etc just like we did Deron.

But you enjoy your scrappy Jazz.

The Lakers didn't tank to get Kobe - unless you call their 53-29 record "tanking." The Spurs didn't tank the 96-97 season to get Duncan, their franchise player missed the entire season due to injury (Boston and NJ actually were the teams who intentionally "tanked" their season and the '97 draft worked out very well for them, didn't it?).

This is essentially like saying instead of putting your life savings into bonds or CD's, better to invest in powerball tickets. Real basketball isn't like a video game where no matter what happens in the season, as long as certain minutes and point averages are met a player's ratings will increase. If management takes a defeatist attitude toward the team this year, you substantially raise the risk of your players will develop a defeatist attitude. Comes down to attitude. You can either man up and try to make something positive happen or you can roll over and hope you get bailed out.

I wasn't expecting much from this team in terms of their record regardless, but it would be nice to win alot of games if for nothing more than to stick it to those "Jazz fans" who are misguidedly hoping the team loses big this season.

 

[green]

Do you realize how unsure the draft process really is? For every Durant, Kobe, and Lebron, there are countless guys who never succeeded. It's extremely unlikely (statistically) that a team, even high in the draft, will get a superstar.

Top 3 picks:

Wall
Turner
Favors
Griffin
Thabeet
Harden
Rose
Beasley
Mayo
Oden
Durant
Horford
Bargnangi
Morrison
Aldridge
Bogut
Williams
Williams
Howard
Omakafur
Gordon
James
Milicic
Anthony
Ming
Williams
Dunleavy
Brown
Chandler
Gasol

In the last ten years, the top three picks have had four busts out of forty players, and two freak injuries. So six out of forty players didn't pan out (15%). Six were all american, all amazing (15%). And the other 28? Players that are good enough that they would never consider signing a contract in Utah until they had a career ending injury, but were still trying to hang on. This is our REALISTIC chance to hedge our bets that we will be a great team, and a TITLE contender. Not a division winner, not a playoff team, but have a REALISTIC chance to win it all.

 

[green]

This is essentially like saying instead of putting your life savings into bonds or CD's, better to invest in powerball tickets. Real basketball isn't like a video game where no matter what happens in the season, as long as certain minutes and point averages are met a player's ratings will increase. If management takes a defeatist attitude toward the team this year, you substantially raise the risk of your players will develop a defeatist attitude. Comes down to attitude. You can either man up and try to make something positive happen or you can roll over and hope you get bailed out.

I wasn't expecting much from this team in terms of their record regardless, but it would be nice to win alot of games if for nothing more than to stick it to those "Jazz fans" who are misguidedly hoping the team loses big this season.

First of all, I am not Jazz management. You are right about Jazz management. The Jazz are a business trying to make money and should never have that attitude...in public (just like SA). Secondly, about attitude. There is a really easy fix to this problem. Look at what the Lakers did. They had a problem with the attitude of their superstars (Kobe and Shaq). What did they do? They went out and brought in a coach that can get it done. If Corbin can't keep the players attitude up, find someone who can. Especially if you have talent.

Also, trying to have the Jazz come in ninth place this year to spite me is funny, because it hurts you just as much as it hurts me. We both get stuck with a Jazz team that will be trading away their best player for picks in six years. But, yeah, you stuck it to me.

 

[freakazoid]

Actually we missed the playoffs 3 consecutive seasons (2003-04, 2004-05, 2005-06). Think this franchise wants to wait until 2013-14 to play in the postseason?

Damn, don't know what the hell I was thinking. I guess that only shows just how unrealistic it is to expect to rebuild and only miss one season of playoffs.

Think this franchise wants to wait until 2013-14 to play in the postseason?

Absolutely not. I think they're hoping to take a big step forward next offseason and try for the playoffs NEXT year. I don't believe for a second that they're really expecting to make the playoffs this year, regardless of KOC's denials on rebuilding.

There has to be a balance between gaining experience for your young players as well as remaining competitive - because having your young players get their asses kicked every single night will do more harm than good.

I agree with this. I'm not at all hoping for a #1 overall pick, nor do I expect Utah to be that bad. Just the same, I don't believe they'll make the playoffs, and that extra pick will be an asset, especially if we get lucky with GS pick.

The point to remember is not every team will be an OKC and have a Kevin Durant led squad that can suck ***, stockpile lottery picks and then suddenly figure out how to win the following season. The Jazz aren't the first team in the history of the NBA to trade a superstar and attempt to rebuild around young talent. There have been numerous crash and burn scenarios with teams that at the time had more assets and a better looking young nucleus than the Jazz have now. Just because something looks good on paper - there have been far too many failures using this method to take any season for granted.

Yeah, you're barking up the wrong tree if this is directed at me. All I care about is Utah's situation, and what would benefit them the most going forward. I don't see them making the playoffs, so I think they need to do whatever is necessary to build the team. That includes figuring out who is going to be part of the future, as well as maximizing the trade value of vets if they're going to be traded.

It's very feasible for Utah to give their young players alot of NBA-experience while still playing their proven players enough to remain competitive each night. Tanking the season for the opportunity at more ping-pong balls would do more harm to our young core's development than help it.

I agree with this, except for one thing. Once a team is out of the playoffs, all bets are off. It happens every year, and this year won't be an exception. Teams will sit starters with so-called injuries and let the youngsters play.

 

[freakazoid]

But in all scenarios, I'd rather be trading assets for bona fide NBA players than trying to have the most lottery picks on the roster. There's only ONE way to rebuild for the doormats of the league who only have youth and promise (and plenty of busts) on their roster. We have MULTIPLE ways to rebuild depending on how the cards fall.

Pretty much what I've been saying all along. The extra pick would be a big asset in this draft. It doesn't mean we have to have a team full of rookies. It could mean trading multiple picks to move up, or it could mean being in a position to pull off what Ainge did when he traded for KG and Allen. It's about building assets, and building the team.

 

[billyshelby]

Top 3 picks:

Wall
Turner
Favors
Griffin
Thabeet
Harden
Rose
Beasley
Mayo
Oden
Durant
Horford
Bargnangi
Morrison
Aldridge
Bogut
Williams
Williams
Howard
Omakafur
Gordon
James
Milicic
Anthony
Ming
Williams
Dunleavy
Brown
Chandler
Gasol

In the last ten years, the top three picks have had four busts out of forty players, and two freak injuries. So six out of forty players didn't pan out (15%). Six were all american, all amazing (15%). And the other 28? Players that are good enough that they would never consider signing a contract in Utah until they had a career ending injury, but were still trying to hang on. This is our REALISTIC chance to hedge our bets that we will be a great team, and a TITLE contender. Not a division winner, not a playoff team, but have a REALISTIC chance to win it all.

That list shows exactly what you'd expect of the Top 3's over a decade -- about 10 true superstars. Like I said, the whole draft has produced about 20 true superstars in 10 years. But the rest of the guys on that list are not guys you tank a season to get. And we're not likely to get a Top 3. Even if we got lucky, it's nothing more than a Golden Opportunity to have a 30% chance of drafting a superstar.

 

[freakazoid]

The Spurs didn't tank the 96-97 season to get Duncan, their franchise player missed the entire season due to injury (Boston and NJ actually were the teams who intentionally "tanked" their season and the '97 draft worked out very well for them, didn't it?).

I seem to remember the Spurs sitting guys with questionable injuries after Robinson went down, or something like that. Obviously though, my memory aint what it used to be.

I wasn't expecting much from this team in terms of their record regardless, but it would be nice to win alot of games if for nothing more than to stick it to those "Jazz fans" who are misguidedly hoping the team loses big this season.

I definately DON'T want Utah to lose big this year. I want them to get a taste for blood by winning some big games against some good teams. Just the same, I expect some pretty big changes to the overall outlook of this team next year, so I'm not too concerned that losing will become ingrained. If they somehow make the playoffs, I will be happy for them, because I'm a Jazz fan. If they don't, I'll be happy that they'll have an extra asset to build with going forward.

 

[Gameface]

A pro sports team that doesn't play to win is committing fraud if you ask me and if it could be proven the people responsible should be held accountable.

 

[Gameface]

I'm a Jazz fan, a rather simple fan at that, so I always root for my team to WIN!

 

[Jeditiger]

People who root for their own team to lose suck at life. Find another team to watch. Like Minnesota.

 

[freakazoid]

Why not sit Jefferson and Millsap, get the young 'uns some valuable experience,
"

Not fair to the players or the fans who buy tickets. Not only that, but building a team also includes not ruining a player's trade value.

 

[Guitaro]

We don't want these guys to be in a losing environment. I'm hoping that Hayward and Favors are much improved and we make a run at a playoff spot. A round of playoff experience would benefit our young players (and vets for that matter) tremendously. We may still get that GS pick, and could package it with Al/Sap/Harris to move up a few spots and draft a potential star. It's all about building that winning mentality.

Excellent point. I feel like Portland is that team you're describing last year. They got some good playoff experience and now they've added some more nice young players and some vets to plug in the holes. They're going to be a good team this year. Dallas even said that Portland was easily the hardest team they played in the playoffs last year. Don't be so hard on the Jazz for losing to them. They gave the NBA Champs a run for their money. We have a team full of new players with a changed offense and defense. New coaches added. We even have new cheerleaders. Give them a chance!

 

[larryselbows]

Seven pages of debate about the strategy the Jazz should take going into this season... Is someone on this board in front office or something? Who are we trying to convince?

 

[fishonjazz]

Im rooting for the jazz to win because im a fan of the jazz and i like it when they win.

 

[fishonjazz]

My question to green and all the people who want the jazz to tank the season: How do you tank a season? Because judging from the first pre-season game, the best way to tank the season would be to play Bell, Memo, Miles lots of minutes maybe with Keith mcleod at point gaurd and maybe pick up ben handlogten to play power forward. The young guys seem to be better than the vets, so would you suggest that we dont give any minutes to burks, favors, and hayward so we can lose more games? Or should we play the young guys and if they surprise everyone and start winning then should we tell them to stop playing so hard and try to turn the ball over more often so we can get more losses and pick up Lebron/durant/kobe in the draft next year?

 

[Zulu]

Also, the Jazz are a great organization. They aren't the Clippers or Timberwolves or even the Bulls. They are run better. In fact, the only better run organizational may be the Spurs.

The reason why the Jazz are a great organization is because they don't tank for high draft picks like the teams you have mentioned they play to win!!

 

[BluesRocker]

The point of drafting is because the Jazz can't attract major stars. So they have to get them in the draft. Yes we drafted Dwill and he left. But he wouldn't have left if we had another star. That's why we need to draft as many high picks as we can. That are also close in drafting years. And also so that we have bird rights over all if them. That way we increase our odds that we can create the 2 or 3 superstar dynamic. Also if we don't get the stars paired, then we might end up losing a guy like favors. Same situation as deron's.

The window to do that is right now. Haven't you noticed that we have never been in this situation? This is a rare opportunity.

I can't see a better way to do it from the stand point of being a long time jazz fan.

 

[BluesRocker]

I love this thread!

 

[Gameface]

The point of drafting is because the Jazz can't attract major stars. So they have to get them in the draft. Yes we drafted Dwill and he left. But he wouldn't have left if we had another star. That's why we need to draft as many high picks as we can. That are also close in drafting years. And also so that we have bird rights over all if them. That way we increase our odds that we can create the 2 or 3 superstar dynamic. Also if we don't get the stars paired, then we might end up losing a guy like favors. Same situation as deron's.

The window to do that is right now. Haven't you noticed that we have never been in this situation? This is a rare opportunity.

I can't see a better way to do it from the stand point of being a long time jazz fan.

Williams didn't leave us, he got his *** traded to NJ.