So glad the LDS Church doesn't do paid clergy.

[Beantown]

But the church does change with pressure. It has since its existence. There was tons of pressure from members to change things in the temple which has constantly changed because members speaking out against it. A few years ago gay thoughts were sins. Now they are not. Look at the recent post by the church about blacks in the priesthood. Also there was pressure to have women pray in Conference which they did.

I'm not bashing the church all I am saying is the members and some outsiders do have influence on the Church. The LDS church is the members church just as much as the leaders, and people can speak up for change. I used to think that was a bad thing but members pressuring the leaders can create positive change.

 

[acj1971]

My two pennies - I was called to be a bishop when I was 30 years old. My family was living in Tennessee at the time. I shared with a few people at work that I had been called, and it was difficult for them to get how it all worked. A co-worker who was studying to be a pastor / minister was very skeptical that I had been asked / assigned (I certainly didn't volunteer for it!) to be a "pastor" out of the blue, while he was hoping to be hired as one once he finished his divinity schooling for which he was paying a lot of money. At first I didn't know how to really respond to his skepticism, but as I thought about it, I came up with this response. From the time I was twelve until nineteen, I've been involved in different types of church callings or responsibilities for a few hours a week. Additionally, I attended 4 years of seminary in high school, totaling over 1,000 hours of schooling. Beyond that, I had a year of institute, and two full years completely dedicated to ecclesiastical service / leadership as a missionary in Japan. Since the 8 years of my mission, I'd had callings that required 4-8 hours a week of effort, in addition to the three hours at church every Sunday. I'm not saying it's quite as concentrated as a 4 or 6 yr divinity degree, but it's a lot closer than one would think. And - I was younger than many who had that responsibility. Don't get me wrong - I certainly got things wrong as a bishop, and there's lots of things that I would do differently. But - I had been observing church leaders for 15 years, and had hundreds of hours of church leadership training by that point in my life.

 

[Beantown]

My two pennies - I was called to be a bishop when I was 30 years old. My family was living in Tennessee at the time. I shared with a few people at work that I had been called, and it was difficult for them to get how it all worked. A co-worker who was studying to be a pastor / minister was very skeptical that I had been asked / assigned (I certainly didn't volunteer for it!) to be a "pastor" out of the blue, while he was hoping to be hired as one once he finished his divinity schooling for which he was paying a lot of money. At first I didn't know how to really respond to his skepticism, but as I thought about it, I came up with this response. From the time I was twelve until nineteen, I've been involved in different types of church callings or responsibilities for a few hours a week. Additionally, I attended 4 years of seminary in high school, totaling over 1,000 hours of schooling. Beyond that, I had a year of institute, and two full years completely dedicated to ecclesiastical service / leadership as a missionary in Japan. Since the 8 years of my mission, I'd had callings that required 4-8 hours a week of effort, in addition to the three hours at church every Sunday. I'm not saying it's quite as concentrated as a 4 or 6 yr divinity degree, but it's a lot closer than one would think. And - I was younger than many who had that responsibility. Don't get me wrong - I certainly got things wrong as a bishop, and there's lots of things that I would do differently. But - I had been observing church leaders for 15 years, and had hundreds of hours of church leadership training by that point in my life.

Good post. I think also in LDS life you have more experience working with people and others. Not just studying and schooling like other Pastors might have to spend more time on.

 

[VINYLONE]

My two pennies - I was called to be a bishop when I was 30 years old.

So are you a bishop now?


This post has been constructed, arranged and transmitted using the JazzFanz mobile app via an Apple branded communication device.

 

[acj1971]

So are you a bishop now?


This post has been constructed, arranged and transmitted using the JazzFanz mobile app via an Apple branded communication device.

No, I'm not. I served for about 3.5 years and was released when I moved back to Utah several years ago. I have a calling in the stake at this time and I also work for the church. Serving as a bishop was challenging on the family. Knock on wood - if I was ever called to serve as a bishop again, I would delegate much more consistently. I'd defer responses to all of the day to day fires that pop up to other members of the ward that could help resolve many of those issues, in some or many cases more effectively than I could.

 

[bigb]

I see your points as well and I should be clear that my opinions are coming from a non religious perspective. I think it's a really good debate because both sides have very plausible arguments.

For the past 11 years, I've worked with a guy who I've gotten very close to. His dad was a bishop and his stories have really stuck with me because he seems to recall his father's time as a bishop with a certain amount of resentment. He has mentioned numerous times that it's almost like he didn't know his father during his calling. He also recalls it as the most stressful time his family had to endure- especially his mother. I'm sure there's experiences very similar as well as very different among LDS families in regards to having a father take on that responsibility.

Either way, it sounds like an awfully huge undertaking for an individual as well as their family. That's not even including one's ability to deal with theological issues, etc.

My experience was quite different than that. The first time my dad was Bishop was when I was about 9 or 10 years old. He was released (stopped doing it) right before I turned 14. He always made his family his top priority. He continued to coach us in Little League. He never missed an entire game of any kind (both he and my mom would come to at least a part of every game) of any of his four kids. He ate dinner at home with his family EVERY NIGHT. Basically, it didn't affect us terribly. I'm sure it affected his relationship/time with my mom as he would have to do a lot of his Bishop stuff after his parental obligations were met. The biggest affect it had on me was that the other kids my age in the ward seemed to want to hold me to an amazingly high standard.
The second time he was Bishop was after I got married, so it literally had zero affect on me. My mom seemed to enjoy it less though.

 

[Duck Rodgers]

For you City Creek haters:

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=28726825&nid=1284&fm=home_page&s_cid=featured-4

The LDS Church announced the construction of a 32-story City Creek-style mixed-use building in downtown Philadelphia for residential and commercial tenants.

Pretty awesome. And in a city that could use a little help.

 

[Deleted member 365]

The issue I have with city creek is that most of the stores inside are high end national chains. How is the local small business economy supposed to benefit from that? It's a beautiful mall though.

I have no problem with people wasting away their money for these televangelists. The problem I have is when these televangelists convince people that the President is the anti-Christ and that there is a difference between rape and legitimate rape. These guys wield way too much political power.

 

[Duck Rodgers]

The problem I have is when these televangelists convince people that the President is the anti-Christ.These guys wield way too much political power.

Yeah, free speech is horrible. They should have a strict set of uniform guidelines handed down from the government instead to pastors to propagandize government lies out to everyone from the pulpit. Call it...I don't know....the National Council of Churches:

https://www.nationalcouncilofchurches.us/

Make them talk about Ecological Justice, glamorize being on welfare, talk about how bad White people are and such, make them worship their Lord and Savior Barak Obama - you know - the typical liberal pet issues. That would be fun.

 

[babe]

Also, someone mentioned how the family of a bishop can suffer and I have first hand knowledge of the truth of this. There is a horrible stereotype out there that if you want to get a quick and easy screw, find a bishops daughter; sad, but it happens all the time. Most bishops serve five year terms, and if they're lucky, it ends there. I've seen plenty of instances where they leave their bishops calling and take an equally large calling in the stake (wards are divided into stakes, usually 5 or 6 wards per stake, and there is a stake presidency that oversees all of the wards, etc. -- one more layer of Government for babe and Pearl to complain about I suppose), which can be equally devastating on a young family. Think about it: If you're called to be a bishop and your daughter is 12 years old, you know, right about the time she automatically hates you and your wife and wants to start experimenting with adult things, how do you think things are going to go if you're at work from 9 to 5 and doing bishopric things five nights a week from 6 to 10? Age 12 to 17 girls need a dad in their lives, imo, which to me explains why that stereotype I mentioned above is really just a sad reality in some cases.

Which leads to the other questions of why would the church do things like that? Which leads to a lot of spiritual type questions that aren't worth talking about here. It is a very interesting thing to think about though. I have mountains of respect for guys that are bishops, even if I don't like them personally (had a few, tbh) because I have a feeling it's the hardest five years of their lives.

If we had a government that was run by unpaid, unprofessional folks who had day jobs, we'd be better off. Not sure about the having elitist "General Government Authorities" with perks for life. A simple lottery with everybody's name in the hat. . . . well. . . . over age 21. . . .. and a drawing every two years, and no "double duty" required would do the job.

 

[babe]

There is just a few things I find hypocritical:


-I think its great for SLC and I really enjoy going there but I think City Creek is over the top. I also find it hypocritical they are profiting off of the sale of tea, coffee and alcohol.

-There are reports that based on estimates of what the church makes through tithing money that the church themselves is not paying out 10% to relief efforts or charitable items. The churches finances are all secret so there is no way to verify this.

-I don't mind GA's given a salary but I hear stories of "insider trading". Where GA's or their family member start purchasing land around where temples are going to be built before they are announced to the public. Temples usually drive up property values.


So some of this stuff to be honest it pure speculation. Which is why I think the church should just open up the financial documents and be clear about everything.

As for City Creek, I've never been there. . . . but I would guess it fits in with the general trend in America towards a third-world class system involving an ever-more-prospering elite "governing civil management/corporate management" class, and a declining leige class. Clearly, City Creek is a necessary high-end hangout/island with utility for isolating the privileged from the ruled, and we need more of these in every city in America.

I am in this issue with both feet on the side of Beantown's recommendation for accountability to the people from LDS "authorities".

Once upon a time. . . . and this is an absolutely true story. . . . someone wrote to me about a local. . . . which is to say a "national" level, the Philippines to be exact. . . . Presiding Bishop's misdeeds with the Church funds, expecting me to be able to do something about it. I personally knew the people involved, the complainer and the "Presiding Bishop".

I was a nobody. If I went walking in any "Somebody"'s office to present the complaint and ask for someone to "look into it", I knew nothing would be done. I wrote my own. . . . anonymous. . . letter, trying my best to mimic someone who was in possession of facts and capable of making them public, and sent it to the one person I knew who could not afford to ignore it, personally. . . meaning who could really be held responsible in the public eye. I felt like a blackmailer, maybe I was.

I knew the offending Philippine "Presiding Bishop", had been to his house a number of times because he lived in my tracting area, and he was just that willing to come out on the street and invite us in. I knew the culture that prevailed, and I knew how he fit into that culture. In the Philippines you'd be hard-pressed to find someone "qualified" for the job that wouldn't just do stuff like that expecting the Church to work like the government does, and like corporations do, over there.

I knew the complainer was a simple soul who just thought somehow the Church would be different. I might not be such a simple soul, but I think the Church should be different, too.

I was kinda impressed that shortly after my blackmail letter was sent, the problem was "resolved", at least to the extent of installing a new Presiding Bishop over there. Can't say if they found someone who was "different".

 

[TroutBum]

Snitches git' stitches, bitches. You best 'member that, fool.