So, what is the Jazzfanz verdict?

[Sloanfeld]

The point is he used his daughter to get out of Utah. Most people don't buy that LA had the best treatment facilities available, especially since he was flying to NY during his ordeal here.

And regardless of all of that, he is a snake. He's the head of the NBPA, after all. And the worst flopper the league has EVER seen. And how disingenuous do you have to be to write a book about not how great of a player you are, but how great of a guy you are.

"Man, I am so ****ing humble. I am seriously the best guy." -Derek Fisher

Dude is seriously a piece of ****. He's a winner, and most winners are at this level.

You are delusional. Moe had a lovely, lengthly post on the situation after we were eliminated from the playoffs last year which basically owned every one of you fools who actually think that Fisher lied. It's a shame Jason had to pretend the board was deleted so he could get you suckers to give him more money and that beautiful post was lost. She owned all of you, moreso than I own you clowns with Boozer.

 

[Jeditiger]

Interesting that the poll numbers are roughly 70-30. Wasn't that about the ratio of people who cheered/booed Deron the other night?

 

[NUMBERICA]

You are delusional. Moe had a lovely, lengthly post on the situation after we were eliminated from the playoffs last year which basically owned every one of you fools who actually think that Fisher lied. It's a shame Jason had to pretend the board was deleted so he could get you suckers to give him more money and that beautiful post was lost. She owned all of you, moreso than I own you clowns with Boozer.

So you're saying she made a total *** of herself constantly?

 

[moevillini]

So you're saying she made a total *** of herself constantly?

Ha ha, I don't think that's what he's saying but I'm sure there are those who already think that

/sheds tear

Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

 

[LogGrad98]

You are delusional. Moe had a lovely, lengthly post on the situation after we were eliminated from the playoffs last year which basically owned every one of you fools who actually think that Fisher lied. It's a shame Jason had to pretend the board was deleted so he could get you suckers to give him more money and that beautiful post was lost. She owned all of you, moreso than I own you clowns with Boozer.

Pretty sure any number is bigger than zero.

 

[NotDeadYet]

Nobody but the owner could push Jerry out, and I doubt very much that happened. I doubt his wife would either. I think Sloan has looked kinda tired for most of the season, TBH, and expect his comments about his lack of energy are totally honest.

 

[vslice02]

My final verdict: It isn't just one thing, one event or one person to blame.

To elaborate further (LONG - so feel free to stop reading) the tipping point was when Sloan wanted to discipline (not necessarily suspend) Deron after the Bulls game for insubordination (not running a called play) and neither Kevin O'Connor nor Greg Miller would support Sloan's decision.
At that point Jerry realized for the first time since the early 90's, he no longer had sufficient support from ownership and management. He learned from his Chicago days (Reggie Theus) what happens when players realize they have more power than the coach and understood he couldn't do his job with one hand tied behind his back, so he resigned - and Phil Johnson resigned with him out of principle.

The NBA was always a players' league - just not to the extent it is now and certainly not with the Jazz. With recent events - the LeBron Decision, Melo, CP3/Dwight/Deron 2012 speculation and the Cavs historical losing streak - owners and general managers are scared more than ever of losing their superstars.

Because it's easier to get rid of the coach than the layers, if players don't like a coach they'll often quit on him and wait him out until he gets fired. Larry Miller understood the key to successful coaching was ensuring the coaching staff had enough support and job security so the players would be forced to buy into the coach's system.

With Larry's death and the recent events around the league, Utah's new ownership and management have deviated from that philosophy.

In no way shape or form did Deron force Jerry out. With that said, the company-line that this was solely Jerry deciding on his own to step down because he was worn out is also a bunch of B.S. If you believe that - I think you could be sold any bill of goods in the world. The franchise is hoping that - like Santa Claus - fans will want to believe the best about the organization rather look at things with common-sense, hence O'Connor's national media tour on Friday. Unfortunately for KOC, it took 10 minutes of bad grammar for Karl Malone to un-do alot of what he was trying to stress.

I don't blame Deron because unlike some disgruntled superstars - he isn't confrontational because he wants numbers, fame, or a big market. He just wants to win, and I respect the heck out of him for that. While I will agree he needs to improve his leadership - for the franchise leadership has to start at the top, and that's the area that has sorely been lacking through this whole situation. And it's the two men at the top of this organization that I blame more than anything.

 

[NUMBERICA]

While I will agree he needs to improve his leadership - for the franchise leadership has to start at the top, and that's the area that has sorely been lacking through this whole situation. And it's the two men at the top of this organization that I blame more than anything.

Inheritance and KOC?

 

[vslice02]

Inheritance and KOC?

Correct.

 

[vj_74]

My final verdict: It isn't just one thing, one event or one person to blame.

To elaborate further (LONG - so feel free to stop reading) the tipping point was when Sloan wanted to discipline (not necessarily suspend) Deron after the Bulls game for insubordination (not running a called play) and neither Kevin O'Connor nor Greg Miller would support Sloan's decision.
At that point Jerry realized for the first time since the early 90's, he no longer had sufficient support from ownership and management. He learned from his Chicago days (Reggie Theus) what happens when players realize they have more power than the coach and understood he couldn't do his job with one hand tied behind his back, so he resigned - and Phil Johnson resigned with him out of principle.

The NBA was always a players' league - just not to the extent it is now and certainly not with the Jazz. With recent events - the LeBron Decision, Melo, CP3/Dwight/Deron 2012 speculation and the Cavs historical losing streak - owners and general managers are scared more than ever of losing their superstars.

Because it's easier to get rid of the coach than the layers, if players don't like a coach they'll often quit on him and wait him out until he gets fired. Larry Miller understood the key to successful coaching was ensuring the coaching staff had enough support and job security so the players would be forced to buy into the coach's system.

With Larry's death and the recent events around the league, Utah's new ownership and management have deviated from that philosophy.

In no way shape or form did Deron force Jerry out. With that said, the company-line that this was solely Jerry deciding on his own to step down because he was worn out is also a bunch of B.S. If you believe that - I think you could be sold any bill of goods in the world. The franchise is hoping that - like Santa Claus - fans will want to believe the best about the organization rather look at things with common-sense, hence O'Connor's national media tour on Friday. Unfortunately for KOC, it took 10 minutes of bad grammar for Karl Malone to un-do alot of what he was trying to stress.

I don't blame Deron because unlike some disgruntled superstars - he isn't confrontational because he wants numbers, fame, or a big market. He just wants to win, and I respect the heck out of him for that. While I will agree he needs to improve his leadership - for the franchise leadership has to start at the top, and that's the area that has sorely been lacking through this whole situation. And it's the two men at the top of this organization that I blame more than anything.

I agree with most of that.

Ultimately it was Greg Miller's inaction and reluctance to do anything that tipped the scales for Sloan. The ownership was definitely pandering more to their freeagent-to-be than their coach and I dont think Sloan liked it that way. All that BS about talking Sloan out of retirement 10 mins before the press conference is just that-BS.

If I lose interest in the Jazz ultimately(it is definitely not very high right now) it will ultimately be because of Greg sonofabitch Miller. Larry Miller was frugal but he was atleast principled in some way. Greg Miller seems to care only about the bottomline.

Part of me wishes that Deron should screw Greg Miller anyways and walk away. Then the Jazz would be without both Sloan and Deron. Not an unlikely scenario. Deron knows that Sloan leaving this franchise doesnt make this team a title contender. Greg Miller has yet to show that he is willing to dhwtaever it takes to make this team one. Ultimately thats what will keep Deron in Utah. If the Jazz FO dont do enough, all this wont matter for Greggy boy.

 

[Stifle Tower]

+1's to both vslice and vj.
I think slice hit the nail on the head with all his analysis: Sloan not forced, but not supported by ownership and did not want to operate in that environment. And I agree with vj, Larry was indedd frugal, but also principled and PASSIONATE about the Jazz. Greg is not.

 

[moevillini]

so many different threads, I hope I'm putting these thoughts into the right one now...

One of the specific areas of disagreement between Deron and Jerry that I believe was made public by comments from each of them was the idea of the team watching game film together - Deron was upset that they didn't and was advocating that this be done; Jerry said if team members wanted to watch film on their own they could, but didn't seem to feel it was something he should mandate or participate in with them.

I'm pretty sure both of their comments on this issue have been quoted previously.

Due to the number of new acquisitions this season, and the public comments (by both Jerry and Deron) that the new guys were having more difficulty than anticipated learning the plays, perhaps this issue became a pretty big area of disagreement. Pure speculation on my part (something I'm generally loath to do) but perhaps KOC/Greg/coaches agreed on this and other similar issues - not so much in-game issues but more in the realm of practice and teaching.

It's very sad for me that Jerry Sloan is not coaching the Jazz anymore. Contrary to what some may think, he's the reason I became interested in the Jazz at all back in the 1990's - and it's just not quite the same now that he's no longer the coach.

 

[franklin]

If I lose interest in the Jazz ultimately(it is definitely not very high right now) it will ultimately be because of Greg sonoftheworld'sbiggestasshole Miller. Larry Miller was frugal but he was atleast principled in some way. Greg Miller seems to care only about the bottomline.

Fixed that for you. Gail is a sweet lady and we should leave her out of this. But Larry was an epic douchebag. I can deal with poor results under Greg since the world is better off without Larry.

 

[VINYLONE]

I think it's cute that so many people are trying to be as fair as possible with Deron when it seems much more likely that he had something to do with this than Fisher lying to get out of his contract. Absolutely hilarious.

Prove it...with science.

 

[LogGrad98]

Prove it...with science.

Classic.