jimmy eat jazz
Well-Known Member
Xavier Henry. Mathews is not, IMO, the 'star' 2 guard capable of being on of 2-3 main players on the team (though a very serviceable backup), but I think Henry could possibly fill that role.
Oh well.
So who would of you picked?
- Thread starter Beantown
- Start date
Xavier Henry. Mathews is not, IMO, the 'star' 2 guard capable of being on of 2-3 main players on the team (though a very serviceable backup), but I think Henry could possibly fill that role.
Oh well.
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
I am sorry but I hate this argument. NBA GM's screw up more than they land good draft picks. So observing the players throughout there college career and looking at there strengths and weaknesses and the team needs is not hard to do. Or looking at how they will fit into the system. Or how they complement the players on the team already. Its not hard to do research and observe.
Websites like Draft Express which show a lot of information. You can easily make a very good assessment on players coming into the league. With technology now days you can make a very good assessment on the picks. Just because we didn't see the workout does not mean they know a lot more than us. I am sorry but we tried to trade up to get Cousin and we did not work him out. We drafted Brewer and we never worked him out. We never worked out AK. And we drafted him. So this whole process you are talking about is over blown.
All of us fans have questions about who we should be taking and what other teams should have done. And you can look at your own track record and study the game of basketball. Kevin O'Connor has a bad draft record. He finds hidden gems in free agency. But I would give him a C on drafting players.
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
I hate the draft pick. Not that I hate the player. I would like him at a late teen pick or early 20's. But we had the 9th pick! And I am not comparing him to other 9th picks because I know this is a weak draft.
Luke Babbitt is going to be hurting us for years to come. I am not saying he is going to dominate us. But he will be one of those guys who drains 3's on us when we play him. He will complement Brandon Roy well at the 3 spot. I think Portland got a steal. He will become a very good role player.
Xavier Henry would of been a good pick also. He is a better defender and a better outside shooter in my opinion.
I think Hayward is going to get pushed around a lot and his outside shot really scared me. How he shot amazing his freshman year than sucked his second year. He isn't athletic enough to guard wing players in the league also. He is very crafty I will give him that. And I think he gives good effort like a lot of old Jazz players with less talent. But we should of been drafting talent at this pick. Not solid players. That is what the late first round picks are for.
Those are the only 2 guys I wanted. I think Aldrich would of been a bad pick for us there. But Aldrich would of been better than Hayward in my opinion. Close call though.
Our front office says we need to get tougher and longer............So we pass on Babbitt who has a 7 foot wingspan. Plays more physical, He more athletic, Better outside shooter, and better help defender..............So what am I missing here........Hayward is not a bad player but it just seems there were way more talented players available at our position. And I am not talking about projects either. Talented players who can play now. Henry and Babbitt were the 2 players we wished we would have picked. Maybe Aldrich but i am not sure on him yet.
Luke Babbitt is going to be hurting us for years to come. I am not saying he is going to dominate us. But he will be one of those guys who drains 3's on us when we play him. He will complement Brandon Roy well at the 3 spot. I think Portland got a steal. He will become a very good role player.
Xavier Henry would of been a good pick also. He is a better defender and a better outside shooter in my opinion.
I think Hayward is going to get pushed around a lot and his outside shot really scared me. How he shot amazing his freshman year than sucked his second year. He isn't athletic enough to guard wing players in the league also. He is very crafty I will give him that. And I think he gives good effort like a lot of old Jazz players with less talent. But we should of been drafting talent at this pick. Not solid players. That is what the late first round picks are for.
Those are the only 2 guys I wanted. I think Aldrich would of been a bad pick for us there. But Aldrich would of been better than Hayward in my opinion. Close call though.
Our front office says we need to get tougher and longer............So we pass on Babbitt who has a 7 foot wingspan. Plays more physical, He more athletic, Better outside shooter, and better help defender..............So what am I missing here........Hayward is not a bad player but it just seems there were way more talented players available at our position. And I am not talking about projects either. Talented players who can play now. Henry and Babbitt were the 2 players we wished we would have picked. Maybe Aldrich but i am not sure on him yet.
Zerol
Active Member
I agree. That's the whole point with picking at #9. You have to take a risk that would give you the biggest reward down the road. Hayward can be averaging 17 pts, playing as good as Mike Dunleavy before he got injured, raining 3s for us like he did for Butler in his freshman year, but it still won't lead us any closer to championship because no matter how good he will become, he is not what we need.
It became very apparent that the Jazz needs size, length and/or athleticism in the front court when the Lakers toyed with us in the playoffs (or even way before that). Ed Davis may not be ready to play now, but if he pans out, he will be filling a need and improve the team. Cole Aldrich may not have too high of a ceiling, but potentially he can be the first shotblocker we have on our team since Ostertag left and the old AK died. If he pans out, not only our interior defense will improve, our perimeter defense will improve a great deal as well because guys can be more aggressive.
In order for the Hayward's addition to lead us closer to the championship level, he might have to average 25+pts and can't miss at the 3-point line, which we all know is not going to happen. KOC can turn it around and trade for Dwight Howard to fix the team, but it won't help justify drafting a rich man's Luke Walton at #9, much like what Dumars got when he drafted Darko and the Pistons won the champ that same year.
vslice02
Well-Known Member
This has been my feeling. I didn't like the pick but I can't overly criticize it because there wasn't another player available who didn't have as many questions or doubts as Hayward does.
Ed Davis: Probably my preferred pick but he has as good a shot at being a bust as Hayward: 6-10, athletic, mostly unskilled (although he is developing a jumpshot) and mostly underachieved in college. Plus, I've read that some beat writers in NC said he didn't always play hard or work hard. If you're raw and undeveloped, you better work like a dog.
Luke Babbitt To me, this is the player Jay Bilas should've been comparing to Luke Jackson.
Cole AldrichFive years from now, I think he's still a backup center. Don't see alot of growth in his game and he doesn't have the elite or even above-average size to be a difference maker inside.
Xavier Henry Obviously talented and has Steve Smith-type size at the 2 and an NBA body but prefers to shoot 3's rather than drive or post-up, and isn't real quick or explosive. Could be a solid player but could easily be the next Shawne Williams.
Patrick Patterson Obviously the safe pick, but I laugh when I hear David Locke say "at worst he's Paul Millsap." I'd say at-worst he's Brandon Bass and at best he's Paul Millsap. Good pick for Houston because he can fill the Carl Landry-void, but I have to see how offseason plays out because I'd rather have Boozer/Millsap than Millsap/Patterson.
Hayward obviously has his faults but I'm willing to see how he pans out before comdemming this pick.
Ed Davis: Probably my preferred pick but he has as good a shot at being a bust as Hayward: 6-10, athletic, mostly unskilled (although he is developing a jumpshot) and mostly underachieved in college. Plus, I've read that some beat writers in NC said he didn't always play hard or work hard. If you're raw and undeveloped, you better work like a dog.
Luke Babbitt To me, this is the player Jay Bilas should've been comparing to Luke Jackson.
Cole AldrichFive years from now, I think he's still a backup center. Don't see alot of growth in his game and he doesn't have the elite or even above-average size to be a difference maker inside.
Xavier Henry Obviously talented and has Steve Smith-type size at the 2 and an NBA body but prefers to shoot 3's rather than drive or post-up, and isn't real quick or explosive. Could be a solid player but could easily be the next Shawne Williams.
Patrick Patterson Obviously the safe pick, but I laugh when I hear David Locke say "at worst he's Paul Millsap." I'd say at-worst he's Brandon Bass and at best he's Paul Millsap. Good pick for Houston because he can fill the Carl Landry-void, but I have to see how offseason plays out because I'd rather have Boozer/Millsap than Millsap/Patterson.
Hayward obviously has his faults but I'm willing to see how he pans out before comdemming this pick.
C l u t c H 385
Banned
But would you of taken Paul George?
I am.
In 2001, the Jazz drafted Raul Lopez (24) over Gerald Wallace (25), Samuel Dalembert (26), Tony Parker (28), Gilbert Arenas (31).
In 2002, the Jazz drafted Ryan Humphrey (19) over Tayshaun Prince (23), John Salmons (26), Carlos Boozer (35), Matt Barnes (46), Rasual Butler (53), Luis Scola (56).
In 2003, the Jazz drafted Aleksandar Pavlovic (19) over Boris Diaw (21), Travis Outlaw (23), Kendrick Perkins (27), Leandro Barbosa (28), Josh Howard (29).
In 2004, the Jazz drafted Kris Humphires (14) over Al Jefferson (15) then Kirk Snyder (16) over Josh Smith (17), JR Smith (18), Jameer Nelson (20), Tony Allen (25), Kevin Martin (26), Anderson Varejeo (31), Trevor Ariza (44).
In 2007, the Jazz drafted Morris Almond (25) over Aaron Brooks (26), Carl Landry (31), Glen Davis (35), Marc Gasol (48), Ramon Sessions (56).
In 2008, the Jazz drafted Kosta Koufos (23) over Nicolas Batum (25), George Hill (26), Goran Dragic (45).
In 2009, the Jazz drafted Eric Maynor (20) over Darren Collison (21), Rodrigue Beaubois (25), Taj Gibson (26), Dejuan Blair (37), Marcus Thornton (43), Chase Budinger (44).
So don't tell me the Jazz know what they're doing in the draft.
The Jazz haven't a clue what they're doing.
Hayward will prove to be one of the biggest busts of all time as you can expect at least a dozen of the players drafted after him to end up better players in the NBA.
Last edited:
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
Besides the Jazz, how many other teams passed over these players as well?
LunaticWolf
Well-Known Member
I like how he conveniently leaves out 2005 and 2006.
David Stern
Well-Known Member
Paul George or Ed Davis.
No. Indiana was really high on this Kid from some of the reports I have read and prob. would have taken him at 10. (Don't you know that this is just payback for them Taking Hibbert when we wanted him?)
The Ghost of Blue Edwards
Member
KOC was like, "Oh really Indiana, you think you're gonna get the whitest player in the draft again? Not this year..... not this year".
Babbitt is nothing like Humphries.
Babbitt is a pure shooter and multi-skilled scorer. He's the complete NBA package offensively.
Humphries is more like Joe Alexander -- physical tools, but no NBA skills. At the NBA level, physical tools alone aren't enough.
There is no similarity between Luke Babbitt and Luke Jackson.
Babbitt is taller (6'9")
Babbitt is stronger (15 reps on bench press)
Babbitt has a much longer wingspan (6'11").
Babbitt is more athletic (37.5 inch vertical).
Babbitt is a better shooter (50% fg. 91% ft. 42% 3fg.)
Babbitt has more NBA offensive skills (post game, mid-range, long-range, 3-point, pull up jumper, off the dribble moves, better footwork, drives).
Gordon Hayward, on the other hand, is the same size as Luke Jackson (6'7"), plays exactly like Luke Jackson, has the same short wingspan (6'7"), similar athleticism and the same physical limitations that will be exposed at the NBA level, unfortunately for the Jazz.
Hayward is Luke Jackson.
This evaluation is the same as your wife ragging on you becuase the neighbor down the street is much taller than you. The other neighbor down the street is nicer to his wife than you, the other neighbor down the street makes more money than you, and still another neighbor down the street is better with the kids than you and even more so, yet another neighbor down the street is even better to sleep with than you... I don't think KOC has been a good drafter, but i don't think the draft position, that you could go back and see if ANYONE was a good drafter over time. And there's probably some.
Regardless, the Jazz have a horrible draft history -- one of the worst in the league -- as the history shows.
My two picks were Patterson and Babbitt
Patterson was to me the most liekly to be a player in the league - even though he's a Milsap twin, if he's an NBA quality player, he's tradable. I just think you need to get a player.
Babbit is physically skills - traditional athelticsm and hand-eye. He's a 91% FT shooter. I think a 6 9" guy who shoots 91% from the line (averaging big mins per game and plenty of attempts) along with 37" vertical will have game in NBA.
Haward had some intrigue for me becuase of he is surrounded by winning. But it is hard for an internet researcher like myself to search the web the pre-draft measurments of "winning attributes." I do think he'll become a legit shooter.
Ed Davis is my defn of bust: All the physical attributes but has never shown any real basketball prowess.
Paul George was the shocker of the draft for me. He scorred 4 pts against Utah St in a route by the Aggies. If you were ANY BIT COMPETITIVE (with top 10 NBApick talent) WOULDN"T YOU JUST SAY "GIVE ME THE XXXX BALL?????" and proceed to make somethign happen. People blame the coaching at Fresno, but that single game was more evidence of his skill/competitiveness. I'll be shocked if he even gets playing time ever.
Patterson was to me the most liekly to be a player in the league - even though he's a Milsap twin, if he's an NBA quality player, he's tradable. I just think you need to get a player.
Babbit is physically skills - traditional athelticsm and hand-eye. He's a 91% FT shooter. I think a 6 9" guy who shoots 91% from the line (averaging big mins per game and plenty of attempts) along with 37" vertical will have game in NBA.
Haward had some intrigue for me becuase of he is surrounded by winning. But it is hard for an internet researcher like myself to search the web the pre-draft measurments of "winning attributes." I do think he'll become a legit shooter.
Ed Davis is my defn of bust: All the physical attributes but has never shown any real basketball prowess.
Paul George was the shocker of the draft for me. He scorred 4 pts against Utah St in a route by the Aggies. If you were ANY BIT COMPETITIVE (with top 10 NBApick talent) WOULDN"T YOU JUST SAY "GIVE ME THE XXXX BALL?????" and proceed to make somethign happen. People blame the coaching at Fresno, but that single game was more evidence of his skill/competitiveness. I'll be shocked if he even gets playing time ever.
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
2001
First Round: Tyson Chandler, Dominguez H.S. (CA) (2) (Gasol 3)
2002
First Round: Chris Wilcox, Maryland (8) (from Atlanta)
Melvin Ely, Fresno State (12) (Amare 9)
2004
First Round: Shaun Livingston, Peoria High School (IL) (4) (Devin Harris 5)
2005
First Round: Yaroslav Korolev, CSKA Moscow (Russia) (12) (Granger 17)
2007
First Round: Al Thornton, Florida State (14) (Stuckey 15)
2008
First Round: Eric Gordon, Indiana (7) (Lopez 10)
And that was the first team I looked at.
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
You seem like you've heard those very words. "But, but, he's longer, I mean taller than you."