society should let parents parent. and gtfo

[DutchJazzer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z3YdOjOJ-A

what i don't wonder is why the parents just shoot the cops and protective services for kidnapping their kids.

i consider this state sponsored kidnapping.


wtf is this world coming too?

 

[LogGrad98]

We have discussed this topic here before. It is asinine in the extreme. 1/3 of a mile away from home is a few blocks. Good hell at 6 to 10 years old I walked to school....a good 2-3 miles from home. Then often after school I went to friend's houses then back home at 6 or 7. I loved the part about the family being found guilty of unsubstantiated child neglect. What the **** does that even mean? How can you be guilty of something that is unsubstantiated? I think CPS needs to be abolished; the organization is so broken I think it is beyond repair. In many cases there are no laws on the books that they are enforcing, and even then CPS is NOT a law enforcement agency, yet that is exactly what they do. They are the very definition of operating outside of the constitution in every single way. Want a trial? Evidence? Representation? Sorry that comes after you are summarily pronounced guilty and your home is ripped apart. Complete and utter ********.

 

[Beer]

We have discussed this topic here before. It is asinine in the extreme. 1/3 of a mile away from home is a few blocks. Good hell at 6 to 10 years old I walked to school....a good 2-3 miles from home. Then often after school I went to friend's houses then back home at 6 or 7. I loved the part about the family being found guilty of unsubstantiated child neglect. What the **** does that even mean? How can you be guilty of something that is unsubstantiated? I think CPS needs to be abolished; the organization is so broken I think it is beyond repair. In many cases there are no laws on the books that they are enforcing, and even then CPS is NOT a law enforcement agency, yet that is exactly what they do. They are the very definition of operating outside of the constitution in every single way. Want a trial? Evidence? Representation? Sorry that comes after you are summarily pronounced guilty and your home is ripped apart. Complete and utter ********.

Its a bummer when something that should be so good and should help so many kids is so ****ed up.

 

[LogGrad98]

Its a bummer when something that should be so good and should help so many kids is so ****ed up.

Agreed. And the really bad thing is when something like this gets ****ed up, it can completely destroy families and lives. In Ogden we heard horror stories from a guy in our ward who worked for social services. He was a counselor for underprivileged families and kids through the state. He told us about so many instances of this kind of thing it was almost like that was all they did was snatch kids from parents with no proof and no provocation, and sometimes the results were devastating. One family had their daughter taken from them because she knocked on a neighbor's door because she forgot her key and couldn't get ahold of her parents, who were both at work. The neighbor didn't even try to contact the parents, just called CPS. They took her that night and had her in a foster home within a week while they "sorted" everything out. What everything ended up being was the girl was 11, had been walking home from school (almost an entire mile! gasp!) for 2 years, and that day happened to forget her key and her friend she normally would have stayed with wasn't at home. So she was in a foster home for something like 6 or 8 months while the family went through literal hell trying to get it squared away. They finally get her back home on a trial basis and find out she had been sexually assaulted by a 16 year old boy also in foster care in the same home, which was why she was working with the guy from our ward. The family apparently tried to sue CPS and were told point blank by a judge they had no legal right to do so regardless of the circumstances and that no case can be brought against the agency nor the foster family. The boy had been moved somewhere else and no charges were brought against him.

It is unbelievably out of control what they can do with full protection from all repercussions for any negligence from CPS themselves. No government agency should have that kind of power, yet they do. It is ridiculous. I would love to hear a lawyer's take on this since really all we see is what is in the news and what acquaintances tell us, but by all accounts those horror stories are not really isolated cases unfortunately. The whole system needs to be blown up and started over from scratch with careful 3rd party oversight and strictly enforced repercussions for abuse of the system.

 

[Duck Rodgers]

So basically, children are being treated like dogs now? I always thought the people that would call your dog into the pound because he escaped for 5 mins and touched their lawn were tools, but people that do that with 10 or 11 year old children just walking around are something special.

 

[DutchJazzer]

Agreed. And the really ................................ the system.

wow. even more justification to get your kids back from kidnappers by any means neccesarry.
meaning LOAD up and get ready for war. kill all those ********.

it is justifiable killing to get your kid back .


get the kids reunite em with the mother. smuggle them to canada or mexico where they can live hapily ever after.

than turn yourself in in America and get a nice prison stay

 

[gregbroncs]

Agreed. And the really bad thing is when something like this gets ****ed up, it can completely destroy families and lives. In Ogden we heard horror stories from a guy in our ward who worked for social services. He was a counselor for underprivileged families and kids through the state. He told us about so many instances of this kind of thing it was almost like that was all they did was snatch kids from parents with no proof and no provocation, and sometimes the results were devastating. One family had their daughter taken from them because she knocked on a neighbor's door because she forgot her key and couldn't get ahold of her parents, who were both at work. The neighbor didn't even try to contact the parents, just called CPS. They took her that night and had her in a foster home within a week while they "sorted" everything out. What everything ended up being was the girl was 11, had been walking home from school (almost an entire mile! gasp!) for 2 years, and that day happened to forget her key and her friend she normally would have stayed with wasn't at home. So she was in a foster home for something like 6 or 8 months while the family went through literal hell trying to get it squared away. They finally get her back home on a trial basis and find out she had been sexually assaulted by a 16 year old boy also in foster care in the same home, which was why she was working with the guy from our ward. The family apparently tried to sue CPS and were told point blank by a judge they had no legal right to do so regardless of the circumstances and that no case can be brought against the agency nor the foster family. The boy had been moved somewhere else and no charges were brought against him.

It is unbelievably out of control what they can do with full protection from all repercussions for any negligence from CPS themselves. No government agency should have that kind of power, yet they do. It is ridiculous. I would love to hear a lawyer's take on this since really all we see is what is in the news and what acquaintances tell us, but by all accounts those horror stories are not really isolated cases unfortunately. The whole system needs to be blown up and started over from scratch with careful 3rd party oversight and strictly enforced repercussions for abuse of the system.

If this happened to one of my children somebody is probably going to die.

 

[DutchJazzer]

If this happened to one of my children somebody is probably going to die.

yes.
cus a man needs to provide for his family. protecting them from harm is part of that equation

 

[Beer]

yes.
cus a man needs to provide for his family. protecting them from harm is part of that equation

Because shooting a bunch of people is a sure fire way to get to spend more time with your kids.

 

[DutchJazzer]

Because shooting a bunch of people is a sure fire way to get to spend more time with your kids.

atleast they wont get raped in foster care.

as for me, well ......

 

[Siro]

Or perhaps parents should let society societ. Did you think of that?

 

[DutchJazzer]

Or perhaps parents should let society societ. Did you think of that?

well if society wants to parent they should get their own kids. ooh wait society wants gays to make kids.
but they cant. so they try to take away kids from "free-range" parents to give to the gays!!!!!!!!!!

 

[babe]

wow. even more justification to get your kids back from kidnappers by any means neccesarry.
meaning LOAD up and get ready for war. kill all those ********.

it is justifiable killing to get your kid back .


get the kids reunite em with the mother. smuggle them to canada or mexico where they can live hapily ever after.

than turn yourself in in America and get a nice prison stay

In Utah there is a family-support group with lawyer volunteers who will swing into action to curb the Utah agency. Call Gayle Rusicka, the Utah leader of Eagle Forum. Please inform everyone that you should insist, at your door, for the service of a court-ordered warrant before police or other government agents can enter your home. Get your phone on recording the proceedings, a tape recorder, multiple cameras, and calmly state that you need to see the search warrant or other warrant, and that they must wait outside, on the street. Not on your property. Inform them clearly that they are committed trespass without proper cause. Record their responses and actions.

Dutch, you're over the line advocating disproportional force in response to a government agent attempting to do what his employer, the State, has instructed him to do. Cops are ignorant sometimes, improperly trained and illegally instructed. Direct your best effort to the directors of these programs. Call State legislators, the Governor, and take pics. Get a good lawyer.

 

[DutchJazzer]

Dutch, you're over the line advocating disproportional force in response to a government agent attempting to do what his employer, the State, has instructed him to do. Cops are ignorant sometimes, improperly trained and illegally instructed. Direct your best effort to the directors of these programs. Call State legislators, the Governor, and take pics. Get a good lawyer.

first off:

Dutch, you're over the line advocating disproportional force

kidnapping of my kids state sponsored(or as they like to call it "unsubstanitated") or by individuals, should and will Cary deadly force. i don't consider protecting your kids by any means necessary from kidnapping and (sexual) abuse disproportionate.

second

in response to a government agent attempting to do what his employer, the State, has instructed him to do. Cops are ignorant sometimes, improperly trained and illegally instructed.

well i can type a long list of why that is stupid. but a picture or 2 speaks a thousand words

third

Direct your best effort to the directors of these programs. Call State legislators, the Governor, and take pics. Get a good lawyer

that takes time. damage to kids can be done in the blink of an eye. rather them seeing their dad die trying to protect them at all cost neccesary. then stand by while they get carried away and get raped in foster care.
the law works swift against citizen. but for the citizen to get his right takes time.


and last:
now, im not saying the moment cps and cops are at my door i start blasting.
i would give the cops and cps friendly warning that unsubstantiated ******** is not cause to enter my home. or kidnap my children.
i would give them a friendly warning that i would do anything and everything neccesary to protect my children.
and garuantee them that i am a faster draw and better trained then them and possibly their swat team.
which might not be true for swat team. but between the time the swat team gets there i might be better prepared.


call me crazy, but history and personal experience has shown me government is evil.
i am not actively seeking out trouble/[problems with the government.
but i am ready to do anything and everything including die when the government picks a fight with me.

ofcourse i would not start shooting randomlu

 

[babe]

first off:

kidnapping of my kids state sponsored(or as they like to call it "unsubstanitated") or by individuals, should and will Cary deadly force. i don't consider protecting your kids by any means necessary from kidnapping and (sexual) abuse disproportionate.

second

well i can type a long list of why that is stupid. but a picture or 2 speaks a thousand words

third

that takes time. damage to kids can be done in the blink of an eye. rather them seeing their dad die trying to protect them at all cost neccesary. then stand by while they get carried away and get raped in foster care.
the law works swift against citizen. but for the citizen to get his right takes time.


and last:
now, im not saying the moment cps and cops are at my door i start blasting.
i would give the cops and cps friendly warning that unsubstantiated ******** is not cause to enter my home. or kidnap my children.
i would give them a friendly warning that i would do anything and everything neccesary to protect my children.
and garuantee them that i am a faster draw and better trained then them and possibly their swat team.
which might not be true for swat team. but between the time the swat team gets there i might be better prepared.


call me crazy, but history and personal experience has shown me government is evil.
i am not actively seeking out trouble/[problems with the government.
but i am ready to do anything and everything including die when the government picks a fight with me.

ofcourse i would not start shooting randomlu

I prefer to use other tools if I can. Governments call for respect from citizens, if that call is not challenged at some level, the citizens will have no rights and the government will ultimately revert to assuming it's somehow inappropriate to respect the citizens. Citizens have to have considerable numbers united in outrage, and possibly considerable weaponry, to get respect from government.

People who want such "respect", if they are few in number, must nevertheless show up in respectable numbers somewhere to make the point.

The things I suggested above can still be effective, and will gain more popular support, in my opinion. Someone who does as you would, well, I dunno. Been a while since anyone in this country did that. . . .

 

[DutchJazzer]

The things I suggested above can still be effective, and will gain more popular support, in my opinion. Someone who does as you would, well, I dunno. Been a while since anyone in this country did that. . . .

been a while indeed, seems like principles is a thing of the past. BACK IN THE day America went to war against a 2% tax increase.
but i stand by my beliefs and principles. whether society/the masses stand by me or not.
and providing for a family is not only a monetary thing. but also supply them with love, protection, freedom, a believe system etc etc.
something cps and the government do not care about.


in a few years when my kids will be born. i will make sure i am prepared and can l protect them from any outside threat.

 

[babe]

been a while indeed, seems like principles is a thing of the past. BACK IN THE day America went to war against a 2% tax increase.
but i stand by my beliefs and principles. whether society/the masses stand by me or not.
and providing for a family is not only a monetary thing. but also supply them with love, protection, freedom, a believe system etc etc.
something cps and the government do not care about.


in a few years when my kids will be born. i will make sure i am prepared and can l protect them from any outside threat.

My in-laws are a huge clan, and there are a lot of young men in their number who pretty much talk the same way you do. I would consider the main problem in "leading" people like that would be to make effective use of their zeal, their energy, their ideals, their principles.

More than having a gun and principles, is knowing how to make your effort really count.

I think police are generally coming out of comparable family backgrounds, and the crying need is for someone to teach them the American idea of proper government. I know we haven't done it, especially in some of our historical crises. Should've been some soldiers and people just refuse to follow the government orders to march the Cherokee and other indian groups off to a "reservation" in Oklahoma. It was genocide, nothing less. Should've been some frontiersmen stand up for the plains Indians too, when the government got up a program to kill the millions of buffalo they relied upon, and starved them into submission. genocide, plain and simple. We have never done very good at being "American", and the latest thing with UN fascism is actually just a modernized version of some other totalitarian extremes.

We should teach folks to "just say 'no' " to jackbooted govt thugs.

The radical thing about America that truly defines its relative uniqueness in this world, is the idea that people have basic merit, basic rights, and should command respect from the servants we should have in our necessary government, which is there to protect our human rights.

 

[Harambe]

The other side of society should let parents parent...

https://helenair.com/news/local/mother-of-malnourished-baby-arrested-on-endangerment-charge/article_fb6c3384-7ee8-57f8-b2a2-59e7480b39a5.html

The mother of a malnourished baby was arrested Monday for alleged child endangerment.

Alisha Rose Guyaz, 27, of Helena, is accused of abuse and neglect of her 7-month-old child.

The sheriff’s office detective on the case noted that the child “did not resemble a typical 7 month old child in size or appearance.” The child’s “ribs and shoulder blades were visible through his skin and he lacked any noticeable muscle tone,” wrote the detective in the affidavit to support probable cause.

The child was unable to sit up.

The investigation into the case was initiated by a report from Child Protective Services. Guyaz had taken the child to a pediatric clinic, and the child was subsequently taken to St. Peter’s Hospital.

At the hospital, it was determined that the child weighed just eight pounds and was “suffering from extreme malnourishment and nutritional deficiency.” The child’s condition was diagnosed as “non organic failure to thrive.”

During an earlier medical exam, when the child was just a few months old, Guyaz had been told that she needed to augment breastfeeding with formula out of concern about the child’s low weight.

According to the affidavit, Guyaz said she had continued to only feed the baby with breast milk and “cantaloupe juice on one occasion.”

Guyaz was booked on a charge of felony child endangerment.

Just sayin.

 

[DutchJazzer]

The other side of society should let parents parent...

https://helenair.com/news/local/mother-of-malnourished-baby-arrested-on-endangerment-charge/article_fb6c3384-7ee8-57f8-b2a2-59e7480b39a5.html

is that a case of "unsubstantiated" child abuse?

it does seem to have doctors backup. and hardly seems unsubstantiated.

but ok

Just sayin.

is that a case of "unsubstantiated" child abuse?

it does seem to have doctors backup. and hardly seems unsubstantiated.

but ok

 

[Harambe]

is that a case of "unsubstantiated" child abuse?

it does seem to have doctors backup. and hardly seems unsubstantiated.

but ok

I like how your disdain for America has made you screw up the quote system.