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society should let parents parent. and gtfo

ElRoach0 said:
They are accountable to the citizens. Because they're accountable, you see them doing everything they can to appease both sides in this case. Did you even look at what "Unsubstantiated child neglect" actually means?



So they looked into it, found nothing, and kept on trucking. But because they've got to save face in the public eye, they made a file for them.

As this continues to happen, that psuedo blank file will continue to grow, and nothing will continue to happen.

Now, it's a damn shame DCS hasn't just up and told these neighbors to eff off. But if they did that at the first sign of neglect, they wouldn't be doing their jobs.



The community they live in is either dumb as ****, or has a vendetta against these two adults and are playing hardball. As stated above, it's quite the shame they haven't started telling these people to shut up.

What I'd really like to know is who made the reports, and their rationale behind them. not what's on paper.. but why these two are singled out. That would be a piece of investigative journalism I'd read. It's the community that doesn't have accountability in this story, Not the DCS.



As seen in the reports, unsubstantiated neglect. Which doesn't go on your criminal record at all, and is admittedly just an empty file. No family is broken up over unsubstantiated neglect.
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It is not an isolated case. In Utah I heard a bunch of similar examples from the guy in our ward that worked with kids from CPS. In Reno there was a big to-do at my daughter's school because someone's kid walking home from school wasn't paying attention and almost walked into traffic about 4 blocks from his house. He wasn't hurt, but a neighbor out on their lawn who saw the thing, and admitted later to being sick of kids walking past his house every day after school, called CPS who promptly picked up the kid because he was 8 and walking home from school without any adult supervision, again 6 or 8 blocks total walking distance with tons of other kids on the street. And there are plenty of others that make the news. They more often than not act first and ask questions later.

I think one problem may lie in definitions. What is the definition of neglect? A paranoid grandmother sees a kid who is "obviously too young to be walking anywhere alone" calls CPS, and it turns out the kid is 13 and just small for her age, and was walking 3 blocks to a friends house which she does regularly. But CPS believes the grandmother's definition of neglect and then, as in the case in this story, forces the kids to be under constant adult supervision at all time. But even then the definitions are vague and unclear. Exactly how far can my child walk alone? At what age can they walk any distance alone? If something happens to my child while they are alone am I criminally responsible? If my child is seen walking alone and someone calls CPS am I instantly guilty of neglect? When they cannot even define neglect clearly how can they ever determine unsubstantiated neglect? The answer to most of these tends toward ridiculousness in the extreme and are anything but consistent.
 
LogGrad98 said:
It is not an isolated case. In Utah I heard a bunch of similar examples from the guy in our ward that worked with kids from CPS. In Reno there was a big to-do at my daughter's school because someone's kid walking home from school wasn't paying attention and almost walked into traffic about 4 blocks from his house. He wasn't hurt, but a neighbor out on their lawn who saw the thing, and admitted later to being sick of kids walking past his house every day after school, called CPS who promptly picked up the kid because he was 8 and walking home from school without any adult supervision, again 6 or 8 blocks total walking distance with tons of other kids on the street. And there are plenty of others that make the news. They more often than not act first and ask questions later.

I think one problem may lie in definitions. What is the definition of neglect? A paranoid grandmother sees a kid who is "obviously too young to be walking anywhere alone" calls CPS, and it turns out the kid is 13 and just small for her age, and was walking 3 blocks to a friends house which she does regularly. But CPS believes the grandmother's definition of neglect and then, as in the case in this story, forces the kids to be under constant adult supervision at all time. But even then the definitions are vague and unclear. Exactly how far can my child walk alone? At what age can they walk any distance alone? If something happens to my child while they are alone am I criminally responsible? If my child is seen walking alone and someone calls CPS am I instantly guilty of neglect? When they cannot even define neglect clearly how can they ever determine unsubstantiated neglect? The answer to most of these tends toward ridiculousness in the extreme and are anything but consistent.
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This, too, is fair. Just because it's not isolated doesn't mean it's not a problem... just not a problem that's isolated. No matter where you go, you're going to have an overprotective grandmother with too much time on her hands, an HoA resident that doesn't like their president, AND someone that has a valid point.

But all of this speaks to the need of a system with power, yet latitude. To take reports case by case, and not something that has hard and fast rules that move to drastic measures. Something with authority, but room to wiggle. Removing the system that we've already put decades into developing puts us in a worse position.

But I'm all for revising it, so long as the safety of the child is unquestionably put first.
 
ElRoach0 said:
This, too, is fair. Just because it's not isolated doesn't mean it's not a problem... just not a problem that's isolated. No matter where you go, you're going to have an overprotective grandmother with too much time on her hands, an HoA resident that doesn't like their president, AND someone that has a valid point.

But all of this speaks to the need of a system with power, yet latitude. To take reports case by case, and not something that has hard and fast rules that move to drastic measures. Something with authority, but room to wiggle. Removing the system that we've already put decades into developing puts us in a worse position.

But I'm all for revising it, so long as the safety of the child is unquestionably put first.
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I would add one thing to that: accountability. There needs to be oversight, 3rd party would be best imo, and there needs to be consequences for breeches on either end of the spectrum.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I would add one thing to that: accountability. There needs to be oversight, 3rd party would be best imo, and there needs to be consequences for breeches on either end of the spectrum.
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Expand accountability to those that make false reports and we've got a deal.
 
LogGrad98 said:
It is not an isolated case. In Utah I heard a bunch of similar examples from the guy in our ward that worked with kids from CPS. In Reno there was a big to-do at my daughter's school because someone's kid walking home from school wasn't paying attention and almost walked into traffic about 4 blocks from his house. He wasn't hurt, but a neighbor out on their lawn who saw the thing, and admitted later to being sick of kids walking past his house every day after school, called CPS who promptly picked up the kid because he was 8 and walking home from school without any adult supervision, again 6 or 8 blocks total walking distance with tons of other kids on the street. And there are plenty of others that make the news. They more often than not act first and ask questions later.

I think one problem may lie in definitions. What is the definition of neglect? A paranoid grandmother sees a kid who is "obviously too young to be walking anywhere alone" calls CPS, and it turns out the kid is 13 and just small for her age, and was walking 3 blocks to a friends house which she does regularly. But CPS believes the grandmother's definition of neglect and then, as in the case in this story, forces the kids to be under constant adult supervision at all time. But even then the definitions are vague and unclear. Exactly how far can my child walk alone? At what age can they walk any distance alone? If something happens to my child while they are alone am I criminally responsible? If my child is seen walking alone and someone calls CPS am I instantly guilty of neglect? When they cannot even define neglect clearly how can they ever determine unsubstantiated neglect? The answer to most of these tends toward ridiculousness in the extreme and are anything but consistent.
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Haha my uncle had CPS called on him because the neighbor kids in his ward told there crazy bitch mum in the bath one night that his kids taught them to stick g.i. joes up there corn holes. [edited] Its completely normal for young boys to do peepee poopoo stuff like this. You have them nekked in the bathe together for gods sake. [edited] They are 4 & 5 they will try to do stuff like that. They are BOYS.

Anyhow, this bitch has a history of calling CPS and my uncle still had to go threw the ringer. You wouldn't believe the kinds of questions his boys were asked. Pure filth and criminal child abuse if you ask me. They tried to indoctrinate them about guns and smoking and all sorts of stupid stuff. I think my cousins are still messed up from it just by the way they do odd little things around authority.
 
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ElRoach0 said:
Expand accountability to those that make false reports and we've got a deal.
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Oh yeah like thats going to work just like i heard 60% of rape claims are false. You want to punish potential victims because the justice system lets some fall threw the cracks? Okay so now el roachs rapist gets let off scotch free so yeah lets punish el roach for false claims. Great idea.
 
Dumb Bloke said:
Oh yeah like thats going to work just like i heard 60% of rape claims are false. You want to punish potential victims because the justice system lets some fall threw the cracks? Okay so now el roachs rapist gets let off scotch free so yeah lets punish el roach for false claims. Great idea.
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I think more like false reports like the nosy neighbor who is sick of the kids playing in the neighborhood when the parents might not be around. Not the concerned uncle who reports a child who might be abused by his nephew or something. Again, oversight is important.
 
Dumb Bloke said:
Oh yeah like thats going to work just like i heard 60% of rape claims are false. You want to punish potential victims because the justice system lets some fall threw the cracks? Okay so now el roachs rapist gets let off scotch free so yeah lets punish el roach for false claims. Great idea.
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Your mom said I raped her.

But believe you me... she was very willing.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I think more like false reports like the nosy neighbor who is sick of the kids playing in the neighborhood when the parents might not be around. Not the concerned uncle who reports a child who might be abused by his nephew or something. Again, oversight is important.
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ElRoach0 said:
Your mom said I raped her.

But believe you me... she was very willing.
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A free lesson in counter-trolling. Now where's my tax write off for that...
 
LogGrad98 said:
I think more like false reports like the nosy neighbor who is sick of the kids playing in the neighborhood when the parents might not be around. Not the concerned uncle who reports a child who might be abused by his nephew or something. Again, oversight is important.
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Your talk is cheap. Its easy to say something needs to get fixed. Not so easy to give the fix.

You think CPS likes wasting time on bogus calls? If there were a fix they would be first in line pushing it. There is no fix so we will have to deal with it as it is.
 
Dumb Bloke said:
Your talk is cheap. Its easy to say something needs to get fixed. Not so easy to give the fix.

You think CPS likes wasting time on bogus calls? If there were a fix they would be first in line pushing it. There is no fix so we will have to deal with it as it is.
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"There's never going to be a fix, so just suck it up"

"The world is flat, there's no sense going West, you'll just fall off the edge of the planet"

"The Sun revolves around the Earth. It's just how it is, suck it up"

"Oh Tesla... AC isn't possible."

"I think someday there will be a world market. It'll have something like 5 computers in it"

"Global Warming? Have you seen the snowball I brought in to the Congressional Floor?"

You're in good company, Bloke. Keep on truckin.

And yes Bloke... Rape is a million times funnier than your posts.
 
well, looks like Dumb got banned, at least for a while.

moderating, and re-directing useless and in fact distasteful "discussions" might not be a crime either.
 
well, there's a lot on this plate.

Before we really just close up the state/gov agencies, staffed with humans of all sorts with the common failing of being willing participants in statists' visions of fixing society and/or caring for kids, there's some things that we ought to think twice about.

The teen girl in the nomad's tent, in the middle of some desert/wilderness over some time span from the age of apes to the present, who had no plausible options in life but to marry the nomad over the mountain who gave her father some goats, for example. Just when did "social justice" and "human rights", including kids' expectations about parents emerge as something we could know anything about, let alone have opinions, or laws about?

It is the expectation of something better that has moved mankind up to this place, a sort of developing line of reason. Pretty sure it shouldn't stop here.

We have a lot to expect. We should teach kids, and expect kids, to speak truth about their situation and wishes in life. We should expect parents to do some things for their kids. We should expect cops/police officers/social service personnel to know how to navigate through their tasks without being obtuse. We should expect state/gov agencies to be accountable to the public, and to the law. We should expect lawmakers to make better laws. We should expect more rights as children, and as parents, than the government can have as intervenors. If they have something that needs doing, we should expect they do it the right way.

No "rollover and be abused citizens" should get a pass for not caring. Shame them into caring. They're worse than "fat people", they're "fat heads".

There's no reason to accept abuse. From anyone.
 
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