That's the problem isn't it? "When he played". I don't know how you can consider Millsap to be redundant when the guy who starts in front of him only plays 70% of the time, and on only one side of the court. The Jazz were smart not to sign up for another 4 or 5 years of Boozer. He was a disaster in Chicago.
Some props for DL from SI - NBA free agency: Winners and losers
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That's the problem isn't it? "When he played". I don't know how you can consider Millsap to be redundant when the guy who starts in front of him only plays 70% of the time, and on only one side of the court. The Jazz were smart not to sign up for another 4 or 5 years of Boozer. He was a disaster in Chicago.
No it wouldn't have. Al wasn't a good passer, and more importantly, Memo couldn't guard anything besides a plodding big man. He remains to this day one of the absolute worst team defenders/rim protectors that I've ever seen.
This team never had a chance with either Boozer and Memo or Big Al and Memo. You can't defend if you can't protect the rim OR the lane and the Jazz couldn't. That Memo extension if anything was the greatest mistake of the tail-end of that era, and that's not strictly injury-informed hindsight. He was on the wrong side of 30 and already a HUGE liability with his lack of speed and athleticism (not to mention effort) on the defensive end. If I recall correctly, a number of rim-protectors became available (including Tyson Chandler) which they could've pursued but apparently didn't.
Coming back to Millsap, he's the only guy in that era that could at all. He's the only decision they nailed between the time of his extension and when Deron got traded. The only one. Matthews doesn't count, and neither does getting anything for Brewer (who wasn't a legit piece and paired with AK made it necessary to have a floor-spacer that couldn't guard anything on the team) because he was traded for the second biggest waste of resources this team has ever committed in Big Al (behind AK, which is an entire other book of **** that piece of garbage drug us through).
framer
Well-Known Member
Boozer was good, but the Lakers were a thing, and Boozer was ineffective against them. He could never adjust his game to deal with that and played softer and softer each year.
Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
This conversation makes me so thankful that the Jazz have Gobert and Favors. For all the offensive deficiencies their tandem causes with the spacing. . . when they're both healthy and on the court together the defensive rim protection is effing beautiful. It's the Anti-Warriors. If Exum and Hill can both be lock down defenders, this upcoming season should be fun for those of us that love defensive teams.
I disagree he played softer. He couldn't deal with length that he couldn't out maneuver, certainly. He was a douche. He didn't defend. But my point stands. I'd rather have Boozer play 60 games where the offense is clicking and the defense sucks than 82 with Big Al gumming up the offense and the defense sucking.
That's another thing, Big Al was softer than a Taco Bell ****. He just played in the post because that's all he knew how to do, but he wasn't overpowering people. And when a game wasn't going his way, he quit. He was bullied physically and psychologically easier than most players I've seen (watch any game against KG).
I'm so happy with this team right now. We'll see if it's good, but I look at it and don't see any major holes and I don't see any cowards or douchebags. I'm excited.
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Last time I ate Taco Bell I **** water for 24 hours straight. Al was softer than that.
Cappy_Smurf
Well-Known Member
Fair enough. I haven't had the desire, nor the time to get too involved in explaining why I think the criticisms of DL have been iffy at best. I understand completely why you and HH believe he should have been more aggressive last offseason, I just don't think you're being very objective about the big picture.
For one, there was an advantage to maintaining cap flexibility last year, as it would have given us a better possibility of pulling off a trade at the deadline, when better opportunities may have become available. Just because nothing happened, doesn't mean it was the wrong decision to give ourselves that option. Hard to say without knowing exactly what opportunities we may have passed on.
Secondly, I'm not at all convinced that DL was even interested in making the playoffs last year. I'm going to be very interested in watching how quin coaches this year, as there are certain things that led me to believe he was more interested in development than actually winning games. FE, there were games when Utah had a lead and then lost it because of some crazy lineup Quin had in that made no sense, such as having both Hayward and Hood on the bench at the same time. Almost seemed like he was more interested in putting the team in a situation where they had to fight in a close game, than actually winning.
Also, I admit I have a pet peeve against fans complaining about not signing certain players, when chances are that player had no interest in playing in Utah. Without knowing exactly what opportunities we may have had, it just feels like nit-picking to me sometimes. The whole cake baking to me has always been misunderstood by most fans. They assume it means we just decided not to pursue anybody because we wanted to see what we had. In reality, I believe it simply meant we were being extremely patient in making moves, which really wasn't a bad thing, even if we were a little too conservative. I don't believe for a second that DL wasn't looking under every rock for opportunities last year, but was being very cautious about finding the right one.
Anyway, for all the criticisms about what DL has or hasn't done, we'll soon find out just how good of a job he's done in putting this team together. For me, after seeing the way the team played after the Kanter trade, I think DL deserves the benefit of the doubt for now.
P.S. FWIW, I've wanted Burke traded for the last two years, and wanted the Jazz to trade for Ty Lawson even before Exum got hurt. Had they done so, we probably would have given up the pick we just traded for Hill, and wouldn't be in the position they are now. As much as I wanted Burke gone/replaced, sometimes it's best to just be patient and wait for the right opportunity. I'm pretty optimistic that DL's patience is going to pay off.
Personally, I think people need to chill and allow this team to play together before you start trading away guys for this imaginary star just waiting to be traded to Utah.
DL has done great improving this team for next year. Now if the Jazz can stay healthy and jell as a team then we may have the beginning of something special. I like this team and hopefully in two years Jazz can keep as many players as possible but most likely they won't so I am just going enjoy this team as it is currently assembled.
DL has done great improving this team for next year. Now if the Jazz can stay healthy and jell as a team then we may have the beginning of something special. I like this team and hopefully in two years Jazz can keep as many players as possible but most likely they won't so I am just going enjoy this team as it is currently assembled.
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JazzyFresh
Banned
I don't pin that all on Al, more so it was Corbins unimaginative offense.
You mean Jerry Sloan, one the greatest coaches of all time ESPECIALLY on offense?
It was Big Al. It was always Big Al. That was his biggest problem before coming to the Jazz.
I think this team has more individually talented players but the S&M team was a better team. So there is some true in both statements. People don't realize how the 90s S&M teams had great role players but without S&M those teams would have been lottery teams. Sloan had everyone buy into his system and that was the main reason(along with two HOF) for their success.
Powshredder
Well-Known Member
I dont know if this has been said yet, but BleacherReport just rated the Utah Jazz 4th....in the NBA... Thats huge! https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2646247-nba-power-rankings-2016-17-how-draft-and-free-agency-have-shaken-up-the-league/page/28
green
Well-Known Member
Don't underestimate Sloan and Johnson. Snyder is good, but those two were legendary.
Lol... You can have this Summer League W.
Grandpa Jazz
Active Member
nateboz: I agree. Speed and athleticism is way up from even 5 years ago. The speed the game is played at today is astounding. Even though I could be expected to defend the old timey players as superior I just don't see it that way. Karl would in my opinion not be as great as he was, Stock on the other hand might just find a way to compete, he always did. Sometimes I think that Gordo fits the mold of those "old timey" players more than the mold of todays players. Ouch, that hurt to say that.
Yup. NBA length is a different animal. He looked hurried and uncomfortable. Ingram looked the opposite.
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He'll adapt. It's not like he doesn't have NBA length himself (6'9 1/4). He's good enough athlete and he showed flashes of getting to the hoop and creating his own shot. He's a gym rat and hard worker, he'll be fine. Summer league doesn't mean much.
green
Well-Known Member
Malone was a freaking work horse and an athlete. We forget that. He'd be great today, but as a completely different player. He'd be able to shoot the three and handle the ball. He might be even better if he grew up today.