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Sorry gun advocates, you'll just have to suck it up

Revolution 9 said:
I was wondering how you go about owning a weapon in Holland. Do you own one?
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yes i owe one but not in holland. it is at my parents house for safe keeping.
to own one u gotta do a lot.
first of join a shooting club. then start the process of acquiring a gun. this might take a few months and they will look into your past yada yada.
while that is going on you should get 2 safes for your home. 1 to store guns and 1 to store ammunition, if u cannot acquire one you can keep your gun in a safe at the shooting club.
you get the gun for the purpose of shooting at a shooting range.
when the gun is in your home it should always be stored separately from ammunition and should not be loaded in your home or on your way to the gun range. they should be in the trunk of your car unloaded.

basically you cannot use the gun for self defense. you have the duty to "retreat" meaning if an intruder is in "your home" as long as you can flee you should flee.
guess your home is not a safe place, not a place of refuge :P. cus retreat in my opinion is retreat to your home.
anywho that is basically the juist of it.

some guns are illegal. btw you cannot own guns that look "real" heck you cannot own this:


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cus it is a replica, even if the color is bue red or purple.

the gun laws here are very restrictive.
not only the gun laws but also the violence laws.
basically the government has a monopoly on violence, self defense is almost unlawfull.

so yes i do own a gun or 2. but no it is back in my home country. which i might be going back to for good in a year.


edit outside of the military NOBODY may shoot or own a fully automatic weapon!
 

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well found a English source that i think is fairly accurate.

Following a shooting spree on Saturday by a lone gunman which has so far cost the lives of seven people, questions are bound to be asked about how the killer, who reportedly used a fully automatic weapon, got his gun and ammo. Outside the military, nobody in the Netherlands is allowed to own or shoot an automatic weapon.

So what are the rules governing gun ownership in the Netherlands? Dutch gun laws are actually quite strict. Gun ownership is seen not as a right, but a privilege, with hunting and target shooting the only two legitimate reasons for owning a gun.

Self defence is not regarded as a valid argument for owning a gun, and only the police are allowed to carry a weapon. The main purpose of Dutch gun laws is to create a clear division between legal gun owners and people who use guns for criminal purposes. So far, the Dutch have been fairly successful in accomplishing this objective.

Gun owner
Aspiring sport shooters must join a gun club. Application for gun club membership involves a trial period, allowing the club to find out who they are dealing with, and a background check by the Justice ministry. A criminal record - particularly one involving violent incidents –would disqualify the applicant. Currently, there are about 42,000 gun owners registered with the Koninklijke Nederlandse Schutters Associatie (Royal Dutch Riflemen’s Association). All gun clubs are registered with the KNSA, which maintains close contact with the Justice ministry.

After one year of membership – during which period the new member can practice with guns owned by the club – members can apply for a gun permit and, if granted, purchase their first gun. After the second year of membership, gun owners can buy more guns, to a maximum of five. Guns and ammunition kept at home must be stored in separate strongboxes. The police regularly make house-calls to check whether the guns registered in a person’s name are actually in his possession and whether they are properly stored.

Permit revoked
Members of shooting clubs are only allowed to own guns which are suitable for use in KNSA-approved shooting matches which, for instance, rules out short-barreled revolvers and all automatic weapons which are unsuited to competitive shooting. Also, gun owners can only legally transport their guns and/or ammunition either from their home to their gun club, to a licensed gunsmith, to the police station (for inspection) or to a shooting match they hold an invitation to. All of the above via the shortest possible route.

As gun ownership is regarded as a privilege, almost any violation of the gun laws will automatically lead to the shooter’s gun permit being revoked. Involvement in a violent incident, or even driving a car under the influence of alcohol, will also result in the permit being revoked.

Unnecessary suffering
Another category of gun ownership involves guns used for hunting. There are about 28,000 hunters in the Netherlands, who must take an extensive and quite expensive one-year training course to obtain their hunter’s diploma before they can apply for a hunting licence. This will only be granted if they can prove they actually have access to hunting grounds, which in the densely-populated Netherlands can prove quite difficult to find. Hunters are allowed to take their rifles out into the fields, but the rules regarding safe storage apply to all legal gun owners, and must regularly practice their shooting skills at a rifle range to avoid unnecessary suffering of their prey.

Of course, just like its neighbours, the Netherlands has a serious problem with illegal weapons, most of which are owned and used by criminals. Many of these illegal arms are alarm guns illegally converted to firearms. Reliable information on the number of illegal firearms in the Netherlands is – for obvious reasons – difficult to come by, but recent research suggests that each year thousands of illegal weapons are smuggled into the Netherlands.
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so yeah even with these restriceve gun laws. we had to rely on 3 American marines to save the day.
the gunman form Paris boarded in amsterdam
 
dutch thank you for the info.

I like the rules of most European countries, and how hard they make it to get a weapon. I am ok with people owning a gun, but I think they should have to
go through a strict process to own and keep it. Its not something to be taken lightly.

and the 3 brave soldiers (they were not all marines) took him down with NO weapon.
 
Revolution 9 said:
dutch thank you for the info.

I like the rules of most European countries, and how hard they make it to get a weapon. I am ok with people owning a gun, but I think they should have to
go through a strict process to own and keep it. Its not something to be taken lightly.

and the 3 brave soldiers (they were not all marines) took him down with NO weapon.
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i have been training my *** off for years to also be able to be a credible unarmed threat to any armed opposition!
it takes training but being unarmed does not make 1 helpless.

for example if there is a burglar in your home and your a petite small woman, lets say he punches u in the gut. not really leaving a mark. you manage to grab a knife and stab him. you will get in trouble because deadly force is not warranted!
do you think that is fair? some lawmakers and politicians deciding you have no right to self defense.

a man spent 4 months in jail because he shot a burglar in the chest.
you may ask wtf happened that he'd shoot the burglar in the chest.
well he heard noises went downstairs and there was this burglar with an axe
he swung at the man the men ran back up the stares whit a man with axe swinging with axe marks on the wall. he managed to get to his room locked the door and put a piece of furniture in front of it. he bought himselfs some time to open up his 2 safes 1 with ammo 1 with the gun. managed to load it in time and shto a warning shot the burglar ran towards him. he shot him in the chest.
and got hauled of to jail spent about 4 months in jail but was acquitted
he had to prove in a court of law amongst other things:
1.why the use of the gun was warranted.
2.couldn't he handle it another way
3. where his gun and ammo really in separate safes and not just a loaded gun under his pillow.
4.did he take his gun out of safe AFTER he was attacked or before.
5. did the burglar first saw the gun and feared for his live and started swinging axes(aka the man was the agitator and not the burglar).
and much more

luckily he got acquited after 4 months in jail. away from his wife and kids.
but hey atleast he got about 500 euros per month in jail.

so yeah **** this ****. its easy to talk now, but I would tell the judge and the whole system to go **** them-self. lock me up and throw away the key!
 
DutchJazzer said:
i have been training my *** off for years to also be able to be a credible unarmed threat to any armed opposition!
it takes training but being unarmed does not make 1 helpless.

for example if there is a burglar in your home and your a petite small woman, lets say he punches u in the gut. not really leaving a mark. you manage to grab a knife and stab him. you will get in trouble because deadly force is not warranted!
do you think that is fair? some lawmakers and politicians deciding you have no right to self defense.

a man spent 4 months in jail because he shot a burglar in the chest.
you may ask wtf happened that he'd shoot the burglar in the chest.
well he heard noises went downstairs and there was this burglar with an axe
he swung at the man the men ran back up the stares whit a man with axe swinging with axe marks on the wall. he managed to get to his room locked the door and put a piece of furniture in front of it. he bought himselfs some time to open up his 2 safes 1 with ammo 1 with the gun. managed to load it in time and shto a warning shot the burglar ran towards him. he shot him in the chest.
and got hauled of to jail spent about 4 months in jail but was acquitted
he had to prove in a court of law amongst other things:
1.why the use of the gun was warranted.
2.couldn't he handle it another way
3. where his gun and ammo really in separate safes and not just a loaded gun under his pillow.
4.did he take his gun out of safe AFTER he was attacked or before.
5. did the burglar first saw the gun and feared for his live and started swinging axes(aka the man was the agitator and not the burglar).
and much more

luckily he got acquited after 4 months in jail. away from his wife and kids.
but hey atleast he got about 500 euros per month in jail.

so yeah **** this ****. its easy to talk now, but I would tell the judge and the whole system to go **** them-self. lock me up and throw away the key!
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I see no harm in using deadly force if an intruder is in your home. Especially if you are protecting a wife, and kids.

You must be cautions though because the shoot first ask questions later mentality has killed innocent people.

Its a fine line, but in the case you stated above the man shouldnt have been in ANY trouble for his actions.
 
Revolution 9 said:
I see no harm in using deadly force if an intruder is in your home. Especially if you are protecting a wife, and kids.

You must be cautions though because the shoot first ask questions later mentality has killed innocent people.

Its a fine line, but in the case you stated above the man shouldnt have been in ANY trouble for his actions.
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i'd rather live in a country where the defense of me and my family is in my own hands, rather than afraid to defend urself.
i know a guy who served 3 years for excessive force on bruglar in his home who was found guilty.

but there are other reasons for why i am in this country for now.
 
DutchJazzer said:
aka only the criminal had guns while the citizens where sitting ducks. or fish in a barrel
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What if the shooter was unable to get access to a gun though? That would have probably saved some lives
 
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