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Sovereign Citizen Movement

Well the Department of Homeland Security has already labeled Tea Partiers terrorists, so we might as well include any other so-called "freedom lovers".
 
I'm more into learning different languages, getting multiple passports, dual citizenship, trying to have business interests elsewhere, that type of thing to open up avenues of freedom rather than their approach of trying to leave the whole system. But at the same time, the whole sovereign movement is obviously not Johnny and his son Clyde that are going to gun down police officers any time they are bothered in their minivans. They have a sloppy ideology that needs work and isn't worth the trouble that a lot of them run into over it. Going Irwin Schiff on the world and putting in serious time in the pen because you don't want to pay taxes isn't worth it.
 
I actually think USA needs something like sovereign citizen movement.
time for the militia to rise up.
cus the government has lost it.
2 words the :patriot act! if the "government" endorses something like patriot act and al that crazy stuff. it is a illegitimate government. and needs to be put down.
it's very "un-american" to allow the patriot act to exist for 11 years now.

so this sovereign citizen movement might be on to something.
 
Duck Rodgers said:
But at the same time, the whole sovereign movement is obviously not Johnny and his son Clyde that are going to gun down police officers any time they are bothered in their minivans.
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is it sloppy or jsutified.
not endorsing gunning down police officers after al they are doing there job trying to make a living yada yada. its sad 2 human beings lost their live.

but playing devils advocate here.
so lets say they believe the government is illegitimate and wrong which it very well could be(e.g. Patriot act).
so now americans and foreigners could be wire taped "illegaly", could be detained without due process for indefinite amount of time.

isn't that basically kidnapping? the government could "kidnap" you so to speak.
so if you are getting pulled over by a government official. for belonging to a "terrorist" group/movement. you coudl actually fear for your live and freedom.
and no matter how you put it when someone threatens to lock you up torture you kidnap you. it is your duty as a human being to fight for your live. and use lethal force if necessary. so in a way what johny and his son did was what every human being has the right to do.

how could you trust a government who uses patriot act and whatever. the people have become complacement.
in certain countries people are fighting for "democracy" eg egypt, lybia and others.
while in the USA most citizens are sitting back getting fat while their country is turned into an abomination, all because of the "fear" left over from 911.
it is just sad. its time americans get of their fat *** go into a gym, do a rocky montage get lean and mean. and start to fight for their country :D
 
DutchJazzer said:
its time americans get of their fat *** go into a gym, do a rocky montage get lean and mean. and start to fight for their country :D
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Americans no longer have a back bone, and "continue to elect these rich **** suckers, that don't give a **** about them." - George Carlin

Citizens of the U.S. are too complacent, and could really care less what goes on internationally because there was never a draft instituted.
In the 60's and 70's, the draft got people off of their laurels and there was some real activism going on.
But of course, the leaders of the activism of the time were assassinated in order to kill the overthrow.
 
If you are a state, you must put these kinds of things out. On the other hand, these kind of people walking in the streets in the US, it just feels unfair. US caused so much suffering in the lands they try to annex, after all those things, it is just lame and stupid not to whack these guys right on the spot.
 
Well, I watched the whole CBS coverage. During the Clinton Administration, the AG for the US, Janet Reno, stated that in regard to terrorism we have more to fear from christian bible believers than we do from mideast terrorists. yup. the mad hen who went Wacko said that. On the day OKC went down, and the mideast-looking initial suspects were dropped from the news and Timothy McVeigh was arrested. He was publicized as one of our conservative terrorists.

Not a lot of press about his stint in the jungles of Mindanao and Palawan, riding around in jeeps filled with Moro terrorists with AK=47s dangling out in all directions, throwing bombs at local politicians' homes who supported the Manila government, nor about his association for months running up to OKC with federaly-ops agents, nor about his last-minute offer to deal out some info on an upcoming plan to fly some jet airliners into some high-value/high-profile American public places, in exchange for his life. Nope. Instead, they accelerated his execution date.

Stupid people like this "sovereign citizen" and his son, who popped the cops for no good reason, would have to be invented for public exhibit, to justify new police powers, if they did not exist already. "Agent Provocateur" is the status of total dimwits who can be manipulated to do anything, no matter how heinous. It's what Osama Bin Laden was.

In this age of Machiavellian intrigue, just walk away from idiots whenever you can, whether official or rebel. Be a nobody, and be proud of it.

Fact is, most people who feel obliged to stand up for Constitutional rights will battle for it in the voting booths with little stylus punch pins or touch keypads. Standing there insisting on a paper trail and a private ballot. That's why we have a two-party system where there's no difference between parties of any significance. unless you get involved and make a difference.

As things have developed, words are more feared by tyrants today than bullets, and the dude with a computer can be located and hauled off easier than the dude with a gun hiding in the mountain cave, who can't talk to anybody, and who is essentially harmless if just left there to rot.
 
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babe said:
Fact is, most people who feel obliged to stand up for Constitutional rights will battle for it in the voting booths with little stylus punch pins or touch keypads. Standing there insisting on a paper trail and a private ballot. That's why we have a two-party system where there's no difference between parties of any significance. unless you get involved and make a difference.
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One of truest statements ever typed on Jazzfanz.
 
babe said:
Not a lot of press about his stint in the jungles of Mindanao and Palawan, riding around in jeeps filled with Moro terrorists with AK=47s dangling out in all directions, throwing bombs at local politicians' homes who supported the Manila government, nor about his association for months running up to OKC with federaly-ops agents, nor about his last-minute offer to deal out some info on an upcoming plan to fly some jet airliners into some high-value/high-profile American public places, in exchange for his life. Nope. Instead, they accelerated his execution date.
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Not to mention the Southern Poverty Law Center which is the supposed go to source on right wing extremism, ran Elohim City for the FBI. Coddled Timothy McVeigh. You would think they wouldn't be around anymore after that. That kind of undermines their core purpose. You can't make up this world. It's better(as in crazier when viewed correctly) than reading Ludlum books, it's better than reading Clancy books, it's better than reading Dan Brown.
 
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No idea about the movement but the two men featured are murderers and scum.
 
DutchJazzer said:
it's nto like the government is upstanding.
the goverment is also SCUM
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Never said it was. Never even mentioned government. Barking up the wrong tree esse.

Even if I had done all that it does not change the fact that those men murdered two police officers. Murdered. Period.
 
Stoked said:
Never said it was. Never even mentioned government. Barking up the wrong tree esse.

Even if I had done all that it does not change the fact that those men murdered two police officers. Murdered. Period.
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one could argue self defense.
sure those officers where doing there job. it sad for their families and any loss of life is tragic.
but with the patriot act and such other treasonous act the goverment is committing you cant trust the government.
and no matter how you put it those guys might be paranoid. but the government should not be trusted for the stuff they are doing.
so one might argue self defense.
 
DutchJazzer said:
one could argue self defense.
sure those officers where doing there job. it sad for their families and any loss of life is tragic.
but with the patriot act and such other treasonous act the goverment is committing you cant trust the government.
and no matter how you put it those guys might be paranoid. but the government should not be trusted for the stuff they are doing.
so one might argue self defense.
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They could not argue self defense. Wether they like it or not the are subject to the laws of the country they belong to. Those cops were not trying to kill them. No part of what these "men" did was self defense.
 
Stoked said:
They could not argue self defense. Wether they like it or not the are subject to the laws of the country they belong to. Those cops were not trying to kill them. No part of what these "men" did was self defense.
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you are subjects to the laws. but if some of the laws are treasonous doesn't it make all the laws useless?
 
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