What's new
By:
Filters

STAYWARD

billyshelby said:
Fair points, but my personal opinion is when you make a decision of this magnitude, you put perceived slights in the past. The good far outweighs the bad and I think Hayward is mature enough to understand how to separate the business from the personal.
Click to expand...

Agree. Then you have to consider what the family wants. Personally, I would hate living in Miami. I enjoy the seasons, but I also hate the extreme cold. Well, maybe Utah isn't as bad as the Northeast, but I still hate the cold. Give me some snow at Christmas, but then I'm done with it!

And I think it's valid to want to be a perennial all-star. Sure it's a bit cheap, but he'd be a lock every year in the EC. And we all know Cleveland is breaking up. The only decent teams left in the EC would be Boston and an up-and-coming Philly team, with Miami a dark horse (unless Hayward signs there). Hayward could at least go to the Finals almost every year. Then Boston only has to hope for an injury to GS. Stay in the West and EVERY round is a battle.
 
Jack Strop said:
Agree. Then you have to consider what the family wants. Personally, I would hate living in Miami. I enjoy the seasons, but I also hate the extreme cold. Well, maybe Utah isn't as bad as the Northeast, but I still hate the cold. Give me some snow at Christmas, but then I'm done with it!

And I think it's valid to want to be a perennial all-star. Sure it's a bit cheap, but he'd be a lock every year in the EC. And we all know Cleveland is breaking up. The only decent teams left in the EC would be Boston and an up-and-coming Philly team, with Miami a dark horse (unless Hayward signs there). Hayward could at least go to the Finals almost every year. Then Boston only has to hope for an injury to GS. Stay in the West and EVERY round is a battle.
Click to expand...

Philly will be better than Boston within a couple of years, their top end talent is freaking scary
 
Jack Strop said:
I don't disagree, billy. But,

1. Lebron still talks about the disrespect he got from Cleveland the first time he was there. Gordon probably still feels he wasn't treated right when the Jazz sent him on the road to test his value when he was a restricted FA.

2. There was also a time Quin said the Jazz didn't have a "closer." Then had to retreat off that phrase when Hayward called him on it. I don't think the relationship between the two has been completely rosy. And that might be evident in the complimentary way Hayward has talked about Spoelstra and Stevens.

3. Gordon has also talked about the losing. Though denied, there was a rumor he may even asked for a trade before last season. Was that what finally spurred Lindsey to bring in JJ and trade for Hill and Diaw. Was Dennis hoping for another lottery pick and THEN expecting to sign Gordon to a max deal?

I think there are plenty of legit reasons why Hayward may want to leave. Lindsey even opened up about the "scars" in an interview. Can't find it or I'd link it here.
Click to expand...

Good points but I think most of it is overblown. You'll find a great deal of players have ups and downs with a franchise. Just look at Malone here. Thing is, you typically move on. Yes, if you don't, if you let it eat at you, stuff like that acts as fodder to leave. We saw it with DWill. Yet there is no indication, especially this past season, Hayward holds any ill-will toward the Jazz.

In fact, if he did, I don't think we'd be here. I think Hayward would have already signed with Boston or informed the Jazz he wasn't interested. But all indicators suggest that isn't the case.

Does that mean I don't think he leaves? No. I actually am leaning toward the idea he's gone. But I think it'll be because he might sense an opportunity that is too good to pass up. Not only can he reunite with his old coach, he can get out of the shadow of some monster players and chart a path that might not be available in Utah because it's Utah and they're also now in the loaded west.

Plus, he could look at it as an easy path to the conference finals every year and while it might end in a loss, it sure beats losing in the second round most years.
 
billyshelby said:
For my money, the Lindsey pitch is this: Boston has the draft picks/trade assets, Miami has a nice piece in Whiteside and they're gearing up for cap space, but neither of those teams has stability. Boston has a star PG who isn't going to age well and has to be resigned in a year, an aging Horford, and a bunch of free agents next year that have to be paid or traded. Maybe Ainge will spin it all into gold, or maybe not. But like Miami, there's no telling just who he'll be playing with in a year, or two.

In Utah, he already has two parts of a legitimate big 3, and both of them will be signed for 3 years. Then he has relative security in knowing for the next two years he's got guys like Rubio and Ingles, plus a stable roster he knows will play his brand of ball. That's a great foundation to parlay our younger assets and/or cap flexibility into that third star, especially if the Jazz win as they should. That's the Spurs blueprint and it's all happening.
Click to expand...
My big questions if I'm Hayward:

Are the Millers willing to pay up for Hood and/or Exum?

Can we upgrade from Favors?



Sent from my A0001 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
Some free agents will likely head east if it continues to be this open. I just think looking at it right now as the main reason to leave is silly.
 
Maybe he'll post it on his own blog on his website. Heartrate gonna be crazy checking my phone tomorrow morning, especially if he titles it something like "Unfinished Business." Gonna be freaking out if he means with Quin or Stevens.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Is Galinari choosing Utah or Boston over LA? I think if Galinari signs with them, its because he wants to be there.

Sent from my A0001 using JazzFanz mobile app
Click to expand...

No way to know since Utah or Boston won't get the opportunity to find out. I would think the clippers would be the least desirable team of the 3. Sometimes players are afraid if they don't take the deal in front of them, the team will sign somebody else instead of waiting and losing out.

Regardless, this is why they changed to rules and shortened the amount of time a team has to match an offer sheet on a RFA, because the longer teams have to wait, to more it screws them out of opportunities.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Are the Millers willing to pay up for Hood and/or Exum?
Click to expand...

The Millers aren't making that decision, now that the team is in a trust. My guess is that they've ran the numbers to figure out how much tax they can pay and for how long. If we re-sign Hayward, I think a lot of people will be surprised just how much this team pays in LT.

As for keeping Hood and Exum, I think a lot of that will come down to DL trying to find the best value. They have to be very careful not to end up like Portland. As much as I like Hood, I think he's a real risk to turn into a bad contract. If they can extend him reasonably, I think they will, and if not, I'd be very surprised if they let him go to FA. I think Exum will be extended fairly cheaply.

I think it's also possible that Favors, Hood, Burks and Exum could all be involved in a trade to consolidate assets.
 
Cappy_Smurf said:
The Millers aren't making that decision, now that the team is in a trust. My guess is that they've ran the numbers to figure out how much tax they can pay and for how long. If we re-sign Hayward, I think a lot of people will be surprised just how much this team pays in LT.

As for keeping Hood and Exum, I think a lot of that will come down to DL trying to find the best value. They have to be very careful not to end up like Portland. As much as I like Hood, I think he's a real risk to turn into a bad contract. If they can extend him reasonably, I think they will, and if not, I'd be very surprised if they let him go to FA. I think Exum will be extended fairly cheaply.

I think it's also possible that Favors, Hood, Burks and Exum could all be involved in a trade to consolidate assets.
Click to expand...
You clearly have no idea how the trust works.

Sent from my A0001 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
The Millers still pay for the Jazz!

The trust just ensures the team can't move and that no profits can be made from the Jazz.

The Millers still make the final signature to OK moves.

Listen, there is significant incentive for the Jazz to be under the LT this year and next as the LT sharing will be very significant the next two years. I'm sure DL wants to hold off on paying the LT as long as possible to keep the trust full of funds so he doesn't have to ask the Millers to take any kind of loss to keep the team together.

Sent from my A0001 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
Cappy_Smurf said:
The Millers aren't making that decision, now that the team is in a trust. My guess is that they've ran the numbers to figure out how much tax they can pay and for how long. If we re-sign Hayward, I think a lot of people will be surprised just how much this team pays in LT.

As for keeping Hood and Exum, I think a lot of that will come down to DL trying to find the best value. They have to be very careful not to end up like Portland. As much as I like Hood, I think he's a real risk to turn into a bad contract. If they can extend him reasonably, I think they will, and if not, I'd be very surprised if they let him go to FA. I think Exum will be extended fairly cheaply.

I think it's also possible that Favors, Hood, Burks and Exum could all be involved in a trade to consolidate assets.
Click to expand...
And to the point of Hood, that makes me nervous if I'm Hay. I would want the Jazz to get an extension done with Hood before I signed.

Sent from my A0001 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
I work graveyards and I've just been trying to put myself in Haywards head. Obviously I don't know what he values above other things.

But just approaching this from a logic standpoint I can't even come close to having enough reason to leave.

Biggest thing is that the Jazz doing things if I leave would be terrifying. Imagine the Jazz win a title in the next five years and you aren't there? Yea it's unlikely, but you want to bet on Gobert not getting better? Becoming that good? I wouldn't. Even something like watching Mitchell tonight would give me pause. "What if that dude is awesome? What if he me and Rudy are an amazing trio 4 years from now?" It doesn't have to be likely, even the smallest chance of that happening would have me really worried. People say it's Warriors for the next five years, they are obviously the favorite. But Curry and Durrant have both gotten injured before. Klay could be gone next year, **** happens. I'd say it's unlikely that the Warriors actually win 5 titles in a row. This isn't the 1960's. If something happens to the Warriors, maybe we aren't the favorites, but we have as good a chance as anyone. And I 100% beleive that. MAYBE the Celtics give you a better chance to win, but only in a few years when the drafts picks pan out. Gobert is the best player on the two teams for the next 5 years at minimum.

No Paul George, no Butler. Go to Boston and you are the guy, the prize of the offseason. You better perform. You want to deal with the Boston media? I'm a Red Sox fan, go ask Carl Crawford how he liked it. Stay in Utah and we'll build a statue of you and you will be loved forever, no matter what happens.

I'm now in the camp that he stays just because it really makes almost no sense to me for him to leave. If he does I really hope that something comes out about him having a bunch of pent up issues with the FO or something.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
I work graveyards and I've just been trying to put myself in Haywards head. Obviously I don't know what he values above other things.

But just approaching this from a logic standpoint I can't even come close to having enough reason to leave.

Biggest thing is that the Jazz doing things if I leave would be terrifying. Imagine the Jazz win a title in the next five years and you aren't there? Yea it's unlikely, but you want to bet on Gobert not getting better? Becoming that good? I wouldn't. Even something like watching Mitchell tonight would give me pause. "What if that dude is awesome? What if he me and Rudy are an amazing trio 4 years from now?" It doesn't have to be likely, even the smallest chance of that happening would have me really worried. People say it's Warriors for the next five years, they are obviously the favorite. But Curry and Durrant have both gotten injured before. Klay could be gone next year, **** happens. I'd say it's unlikely that the Warriors actually win 5 titles in a row. This isn't the 1960's. If something happens to the Warriors, maybe we aren't the favorites, but we have as good a chance as anyone. And I 100% beleive that. MAYBE the Celtics give you a better chance to win, but only in a few years when the drafts picks pan out. Gobert is the best player on the two teams for the next 5 years at minimum.

No Paul George, no Butler. Go to Boston and you are the guy, the prize of the offseason. You better perform. You want to deal with the Boston media? I'm a Red Sox fan, go ask Carl Crawford how he liked it. Stay in Utah and we'll build a statue of you and you will be loved forever, no matter what happens.

I'm now in the camp that he stays just because it really makes almost no sense to me for him to leave. If he does I really hope that something comes out about him having a bunch of pent up issues with the FO or something.
Click to expand...

The only issue with staying is an NBA issue. NBA makes it real tough for small market teams and the ability to attract a start free agent in their prime is probably his only hesitancy.

Boston and Miami can attract FA's.

I go back and forth hourly.

My latest thought is he is staying.

I think it is too comfortable here and he doesn't want his cheese moved.
 
I believe Hayward wants to leave based on past perceived sleight (the scars DL referred to). Boston is attractive for some reason, but higher risk there than staying in Utah in terms of chasing a title. Enter Miami... Pat Riley has a proven track record of building to win, and doing so quickly. The question is does Hayward want to re-live the past two years and hope Riley puts the correct pieces around him fast enough. So now he has to see what Jazz can put around him to win now. Be a legitimate contender. He has to know Utah is not content to sit where they are... they need to be a legit contender.

Without a clear plan/vision/commitment I think he will leave to Miami. His heart may have been in Boston to a degree, but the fit isn't great. Miami is a complete build around Hayward, and Riley knows how to build a title team.
 
I still believe Hayward stays. Basketball wise the Jazz provide him with the most stable path to winning and contending for a championship. We have the best player on all three teams, Rudy Gobert. We have the most talented current roster top to bottom. We have the most stable roster going forward with Rudy, Jingles and Ricky all locked up for multiple years and several talented young players that we own the bird rights to. Whereas Boston only has IT on a 1 year deal, Horford in his 30's and not a lock to remain there for the entirety of his contract, Bradley only has a year left... Does Gordo really want to be stuck with just draft picks? And Miami is virtually baron of young talents or assets.

But what really makes me think he stays above everything else are the moves and confidence shown by the Jazz...
- They trade a pick for Ricky Rubio. It's later reported by Ramona Shelburne that Hayward WANTED Rubio. And that was confirmed by Tony Jones.
- They sign Jingles, Hayward's best friend to a 4 year 52 million dollar contract BEFORE Hayward re-signs.
- Reports come out that he was in communication with the Jazz about roster possibilities up until he opted out.
- DL has been calm and confident throughout the process.

Would the Jazz really lock all that money up in Rubio and Jingles for years into the future and give up assets if they were concerned or even thought for a second he might leave? I just can't bring myself to think that they would. If they were in any way nervous I would think they would wait until after Hayward made his decision.

I think DL had a pretty good inclination of what Hayward was thinking and it was strong enough to make these moves with confidence. Hayward leaving after the Jazz got him Rubio and resigned his best friend Jingles to play with him would be a pretty bad look.

In DL we trust guys. I think Hayward stays. STAYWARD
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top