Summer 2019 Roster Discussion

[Handlogten's Heros]

He is pretty safe:

- Didn't move Hayward - it wasnt risky staying with Hayward, it was stupid. Every sign pointed to an exit.

- Lyles and a later pick to move up was a no brainer because we didn't like Lyles.

- Hood for Crowder wasn't risky because we had targeted Crowder years prior and Hood was unhappy.

- 2nds and Burks for Korver was safe because we knew exactly what we wanted from Korver and we sell off 2nds anyway

- everything about summer 2018 was safe

- We got Hill for Hayward and the only risk was that he was a rental which he ended up being. It wasn't risky, it was foolish to give up a late lottery pick for one year of an average NBA PG. .

- space and a pick for Rubio might be the riskiest move of his tenure. Still, we desperately needed a PG due to the failed Hill experiment so really it was as much damage control.



Our only risky type moves have been trading late or nonlottery unknowns for average PGs or Lyles and a late unknown pick for an earlier pick.

As for foolish moves, he has a bunch of those: letting Millsap, Carroll, and Hayward leave for nothing. Once again, a risky guy overpays to keep them or trades them instead of just losing them.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

When risky things break the wrong way you can't deny the risk taken by saying it was stupid or foolish.

I'm fairly sure Millsap Carroll were under KOC's reign primarily. That is a tired argument anyway because we turned the space into 2 firsts... If we could have gotten a first to move them pre-deadline we prolly would have done it.

DL has been fairly risk averse... not straight scared. He's missed some opportunities to "be aggressive". Trading the 14th pick for Hill was aggressive and paid off... injuries obviously limited it's effectiveness.

He's probably on the conservative end of the spectrum... not always bad. Billy Knight was pretty aggressive/risk tolerant... Isiaih Thomas was too. There are some good risk takers too, Masai comes to mind. We are now one really good move away from being a conference finals type team... that move may not fall in our lap... might have to take a couple risky swings. IF DL doesn't have the juice to land the free agent we best hit on a pick or make a phenomenal trade.

 

[infection]

When risky things break the wrong way you can't deny the risk taken by saying it was stupid or foolish.

I'm fairly sure Millsap Carroll were under KOC's reign primarily. That is a tired argument anyway because we turned the space into 2 firsts... If we could have gotten a first to move them pre-deadline we prolly would have done it.

DL has been fairly risk averse... not straight scared. He's missed some opportunities to "be aggressive". Trading the 14th pick for Hill was aggressive and paid off... injuries obviously limited it's effectiveness.

He's probably on the conservative end of the spectrum... not always bad. Billy Knight was pretty aggressive/risk tolerant... Isiaih Thomas was too. There are some good risk takers too, Masai comes to mind. We are now one really good move away from being a conference finals type team... that move may not fall in our lap... might have to take a couple risky swings. IF DL doesn't have the juice to land the free agent we best hit on a pick or make a phenomenal trade.

I think it’s more about calculating out when it’s time to be aggressive and when to be conservative. We’ve been out of the “play it safe” mode ever since we discovered Donovan’s potential. We’re still in that window, but at the end of it. All of his other moves lead up to being able to propel us into the next sphere, and doing so requires a risk (or in some cases some very mild risks like some of the available moves we could have made in the past year). Unless we draft the next Donovan, it’s not coming through the draft. To bank on drafting the next Donovan or Rudy is risky. Very risky. And incredibly unrealistic. If we’re lucky, and we can really hit on one, we may be able to draft someone on the caliber of a Niko, which raises some interesting questions.

 

[LoPo]

When risky things break the wrong way you can't deny the risk taken by saying it was stupid or foolish.

I'm fairly sure Millsap Carroll were under KOC's reign primarily. That is a tired argument anyway because we turned the space into 2 firsts... If we could have gotten a first to move them pre-deadline we prolly would have done it.

DL has been fairly risk averse... not straight scared. He's missed some opportunities to "be aggressive". Trading the 14th pick for Hill was aggressive and paid off... injuries obviously limited it's effectiveness.

He's probably on the conservative end of the spectrum... not always bad. Billy Knight was pretty aggressive/risk tolerant... Isiaih Thomas was too. There are some good risk takers too, Masai comes to mind. We are now one really good move away from being a conference finals type team... that move may not fall in our lap... might have to take a couple risky swings. IF DL doesn't have the juice to land the free agent we best hit on a pick or make a phenomenal trade.

So I will give you the Hill trade and Rubio trade as "risky" moves. 6 years and the only risks we have taken were for 2 average NBA PGs?

If you dissected every winning franchise, almost all of the good ones have taken a big swing via trade or risky type contract (Houston with CP, GS with Iggy, SA with Aldridge/DeRozan, Philly, Boston, Bucks, Lakers, etc.). DL hasn't yet. Everything is safe, and that's even the "risky" moves he has made.


Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Miggs]

OKC and Denver have clearly made leaps to me this season. Add in the Dubs and a Portland team who’s one move away from being legit, and that’s a lot to overcome.

I’m not confident we’ll even get out of the first round this year. Which makes me even less confident that we’ll hook any legit free agent.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think it’s more about calculating out when it’s time to be aggressive and when to be conservative. We’ve been out of the “play it safe” mode ever since we discovered Donovan’s potential. We’re still in that window, but at the end of it. All of his other moves lead up to being able to propel us into the next sphere, and doing so requires a risk (or in some cases some very mild risks like some of the available moves we could have made in the past year). Unless we draft the next Donovan, it’s not coming through the draft. To bank on drafting the next Donovan or Rudy is risky. Very risky. And incredibly unrealistic. If we’re lucky, and we can really hit on one, we may be able to draft someone on the caliber of a Niko, which raises some interesting questions.

I understood why we didn't get Niko last trade deadline... It just made sense at the time. Running it back this offseason made sense too, but I wanted us to use our MLE to bring in talent and think we could have done so.

Definitely agree it is time to be aggressive. Curious to see what actually happens... if we run it back I'll be really unhappy.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

So I will give you the Hill trade and Rubio trade as "risky" moves. 6 years and the only risks we have taken were for 2 average NBA PGs?

If you dissected every winning franchise, almost all of the good ones have taken a big swing via trade or risky type contract (Houston with CP, GS with Iggy, SA with Aldridge/DeRozan, Philly, Boston, Bucks, Lakers, etc.). DL hasn't yet. Everything is safe, and that's even the "risky" moves he has made.


Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

Not sure all those moves are risky, but understand your point here. We are at that point where you push something to the middle of the table and say "alright we going for it". Signs are there that we are ready to do it with the Conley move... would have been risky and had a potentially good payoff. We just dealt with an irrational franchise.

I also don't believe that Dante was the sticking point... like if they came back and said "we can do it but we have to have Dante"... do we say absolutely not. I think they got to the deadline and said we aren't trading him... don't think they made a strong counter. I know DL loves Dante, but if they like Conley enough to push the reported chips we had in... then I will assume Dante wasn't too big of an ask.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

OKC and Denver have clearly made leaps to me this season. Add in the Dubs and a Portland team who’s one move away from being legit, and that’s a lot to overcome.

I’m not confident we’ll even get out of the first round this year. Which makes me even less confident that we’ll hook any legit free agent.

Denver is scary and has a lot of young dudes that can still develop a lot. OKC doesn't scare me... capped out... easy schedule... think they owe a couple picks to other teams still. We may become Portland... probably a better version of them, but two great players with some good players and never able to add the final piece.

 

[Miggs]

Denver is scary and has a lot of young dudes that can still develop a lot. OKC doesn't scare me... capped out... easy schedule... think they owe a couple picks to other teams still. We may become Portland... probably a better version of them, but two great players with some good players and never able to add the final piece.

OKC is waaaay better than last year. Grant is a huge upgrade to Anthony and they now have Shröeder and Morris and a way better bench.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

OKC is waaaay better than last year. Grant is a huge upgrade to Anthony and they now have Shröeder and Morris and a way better bench.

I’m thinking more long term I guess. They might beat us this year but I think Westbrook might have a rough decline as age sets in and they have no flexibility.

Getting out of the first round certainly helps our FA pitch but don’t think it’s necessary... getting to the conference finals I think is a huge huge boost to FA pitch.

 

[David Stern]

I don’t think there’s a doubt that OKC, Denver, Portland, and Golden State have better rosters than us. The thing is, I think Quin is a better coach than everyone except Kerr. That’s the only thing that saves us from being stuck in nba purgatory, and gives us a chance against anyone except Golden state

 

[radiohegel]

As far as risk is concerned, I'd say holding off to swing big in free agency is way bolder than trading for a Niko Mirotic. It's ok to claim DL didn't make the move you wanted, but to claim he's refusing to take a risk is just silly. He's taking the biggest swing of all those currently available.

 

[David Stern]

As far as risk is concerned, I'd say holding off to swing big in free agency is way bolder than trading for a Niko Mirotic. It's ok to claim DL didn't make the move you wanted, but to claim he's refusing to take a risk is just silly. He's taking the biggest swing of all those currently available.

I think what most of us are saying is that he’s been conservative to this point, but he’s been justified in doing so. I’m not mad he didn’t make a trade at the deadline. It preserved flexibility. It’s time to take that swing this summer.