Supreme court supports Colorado baker in gay marriage cake controversy.

[MVP]

Interesting decision and opens a whole new can of worms in my opinion. Now people can refuse to serve whoever they deem " not appropriate " based on whatever religious views they will come with. I think this religious freedom is going too far to be honest. Somebody will come with religious beliefs not allowing to serve women? black? hispanics? jews? ... and court will support them? Where is the line???
There was a doctor from Egypt few years ago in Canada who refused to examine and treat lesbian couple because it was against her religion...then when uproar happened she twisted the story saying that she had no experience in examining and treating lesbians... like their anatomy differs from straight women LMAO.

Alliance Defending Freedom Senior Counsel Kristen Waggoner, who represented Phillips, praised the ruling.
"Jack serves all customers; he simply declines to express messages or celebrate events that violate his deeply held beliefs," Waggoner said in a statement. "Creative professionals who serve all people should be free to create art consistent with their convictions without the threat of government punishment."

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/04/poli...do-gay-marriage-cake-supreme-court/index.html

 

[Siro]

I'd rather they not be forced to make the cake. I prefer no poop in my cakes.

 

[framer]

Interesting decision and opens a whole new can of worms in my opinion. Now people can refuse to serve whoever they deem " not appropriate " based on whatever religious views they will come with. I think this religious freedom is going too far to be honest. Somebody will come with religious beliefs not allowing to serve women? black? hispanics? jews? ... and court will support them? Where is the line???
There was a doctor from Egypt few years ago in Canada who refused to examine and treat lesbian couple because it was against her religion...then when uproar happened she twisted the story saying that she had no experience in examining and treating lesbians... like their anatomy differs from straight women LMAO.

Alliance Defending Freedom Senior Counsel Kristen Waggoner, who represented Phillips, praised the ruling.
"Jack serves all customers; he simply declines to express messages or celebrate events that violate his deeply held beliefs," Waggoner said in a statement. "Creative professionals who serve all people should be free to create art consistent with their convictions without the threat of government punishment."

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/04/poli...do-gay-marriage-cake-supreme-court/index.html

Sigh, none of this is relevant. The gist of the decision is that you cannot deny a protected class a product or service that you would supply to a member not of that protected class. However, a member of that protected class cannot force a person to supply a product that they would not sell to anyone else. That seems reasonable and prudent.

For instance, outside of this case, a Baptist could not force a Muslim baker to bake a Mohammed cake or a Jewish client demand them to bake a cake celebrating a Bar Mitzvah. A Hispanic couple couldn't force a photographer to take a "tasteful" nude picture celebrating their wedding day, if the photographer doesn't do nude photos.

You still aren't required to do anything for Nazis if you don't want to. They are not a protected class.

Also, Apparently the Colorado Civil Rights Commission is made up of morons who are provably hostile to religion.

 

[One Brow]

Interesting decision and opens a whole new can of worms in my opinion. Now people can refuse to serve whoever they deem " not appropriate " based on whatever religious views they will come with.

No, that is *not* what this decision said. They said Colorado treated this baker unfairly compared to other bakers who may have refused to make cakes for other reasons. It did not give any rights to the baker.

 

[MVP]

No, that is *not* what this decision said. They said Colorado treated this baker unfairly compared to other bakers who may have refused to make cakes for other reasons. It did not give any rights to the baker.

OK, re read the article. I misunderstood some of it and it is still a lot of murky waters out there. I still do not understand if this baker can or can't refuse to make cakes based on his religious beliefs? If I would ask to make cake with pentagram and gargoyle sitting on the cake and he refuses due to his religious beliefs - can I complain about discrimination or it is his right?

This cake is awesome BTW...

https://www.skeptical-science.com/r...ation-ordering-satan-themed-cakes-satancakes/

 

[lauriandres]

1. Wouldn't be easier for those businesses that don't want to sell the product to just have a price list a la Christian cake - 50 USD, gay theme cake - 100 000 USD?
2. Does the discrimination law applies, if the invoice is created for the company i.e company pays not the end user/customer? I.e can a baker refuse to bake a cake for the LA Lakers because a la they are not Lakers fans (and say it publicly)?

 

[Gameface]

As Siro posted, who wants poop in their cake? A shop doesn't want to make your cake, I'm pretty sure I don't want them making my cake. This was obviously a test case.

A shop that doesn't make gay themed cakes can't be forced to make gay themed cakes. I'm okay with that.

That shop is getting none of my business. I figure it hurts them more than it helps them. Can't be sure, but I don't care, I don't want poop in my cake. I'll hit up a cake shop that doesn't hate me.

 

[Rubashov]

Its really a non issue, I don't see the point in pursuing it to be honest surely if you're after a gay cake you can find people in your own 'community' to make it for you and you know support your own people?

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

As Siro posted, who wants poop in their cake? A shop doesn't want to make your cake, I'm pretty sure I don't want them making my cake. This was obviously a test case.

A shop that doesn't make gay themed cakes can't be forced to make gay themed cakes. I'm okay with that.

That shop is getting none of my business. I figure it hurts them more than it helps them. Can't be sure, but I don't care, I don't want poop in my cake. I'll hit up a cake shop that doesn't hate me.

We're not in the Frederick Douglass days anymore. If people are morally appalled by gay marriage then don't force them to photograph a wedding. You can find another. If a restaurant doesn't want to serve black folk then let them suffer the consequences of their decisions. I'd bet I could start a GoFundMe and raise millions, hire some white country Utah bumpkin, who has been running a diner for 35 years, and undercut the racists out of business.

Hell, most of are largest businesses are already proactive in their hiring practices, being much more effective than Affirmative Action ever was. It's over-the-top these days IMO passing up better qualified candidates but big business is doing it.

 

[One Brow]

OK, re read the article. I misunderstood some of it and it is still a lot of murky waters out there. I still do not understand if this baker can or can't refuse to make cakes based on his religious beliefs? If I would ask to make cake with pentagram and gargoyle sitting on the cake and he refuses due to his religious beliefs - can I complain about discrimination or it is his right?

Speculation is SCOTUS deliberately punted on that question.

 

[Eminence]

Yeah, I'm disappointed they punted on this. Also extremely disappointed in some of the views expressed in this thread, the whole "we're past this" mindset.

 

[silesian]

Its really a non issue, I don't see the point in pursuing it to be honest surely if you're after a gay cake you can find people in your own 'community' to make it for you and you know support your own people?

I'm sure there are a ton of openly gay bakers in places like Johnson City TN, Logan, WV, and St George, Utah. smh

 

[Rubashov]

I'm sure there are a ton of openly gay bakers in places like Johnson City TN, Logan, WV, and St George, Utah. smh

They don't to be gay to chase the pink dollar. Here is a tip, you get into business for one reason, to make money.

 

[silesian]

Hell, most of are largest businesses are already proactive in their hiring practices, being much more effective than Affirmative Action ever was.

Or, Affirmative Action has compelled large businesses to change their hiring practices. which is about 1 billion times more likely.

 

[Eminence]

This should be a routine transaction involving a wedding cake. There are no inherent differences in the cake between a 'gay' cake and a 'straight' cake. It’s objectionable to Phillips because it’s being used by homosexuals.

 

[silesian]

Here is a tip, you get into business for one reason, to make money.

Yeah, that is why bakers are going to the supreme court in order to turn down business.

 

[Eminence]

Sigh, none of this is relevant. The gist of the decision is that you cannot deny a protected class a product or service that you would supply to a member not of that protected class. However, a member of that protected class cannot force a person to supply a product that they would not sell to anyone else. That seems reasonable and prudent.

For instance, outside of this case, a Baptist could not force a Muslim baker to bake a Mohammed cake or a Jewish client demand them to bake a cake celebrating a Bar Mitzvah. A Hispanic couple couldn't force a photographer to take a "tasteful" nude picture celebrating their wedding day, if the photographer doesn't do nude photos.

Could you explain to me why you feel this same argument wouldn't apply to supplying services to any wedding with religious differences from my own, eg if I'm atheist why should I be legally required make a cake for a Catholic/Lutheran/Jewish/Muslim/Mormon wedding but not for homosexuals?

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

Or, Affirmative Action has compelled large businesses to change their hiring practices. which is about 1 billion times more likely.

The legal consequences compel large businesses into this. Lawsuits are too costly so they hire and promote often not based on merit.

But yes, that has been institutionalized by AA.

 

[framer]

Could you explain to me why you feel this same argument wouldn't apply to supplying services to any wedding with religious differences from my own, eg if I'm atheist why should I be legally required make a cake for a Catholic/Lutheran/Jewish/Muslim/Mormon wedding but not for homosexuals?

If you offer a base wedding cake, you need to also allow that to Catholic/Lutheran/Jewish/Muslim/Mormon customers. If someone asks you to put the Salt Lake temple on the cake, you can say no. If they want you to bring the cake to a Stake Center, you can say no. You can't refuse the same cake you would sell to an atheist to a Mormon because Mormons are icky.

 

[Eminence]

If you offer a base wedding cake, you need to also allow that to Catholic/Lutheran/Jewish/Muslim/Mormon customers. If someone asks you to put the Salt Lake temple on the cake, you can say no. If they want you to bring the cake to a Stake Center, you can say no. You can't refuse the same cake you would sell to an atheist to a Mormon because Mormons are icky.

This sounds fine enough, but where does it stop? Can I offer cakes with names, but guys named Joe don't get service (or more likely here - two grooms on top instead of a man and a woman).