FalseFlagg K
Well-Known Member
ffs aren't there a zillion options for obtaining a wedding cake without going to all this bs ?? How hard is it to go pick up a packet of freaking white wings cake mix and do it for yourself
Yep. Or that you live in a community with monopolized(or limited choice of) essential services that might refuse you service. This is the go-to example that I always give - it is very trivial and even somewhat funny when we are talking about wedding cakes or flower delivery services or wedding photographers... but imagine you live in a small town with a single private hospital and you rely on that hospital with no alternatives anywhere close enough to maintain your life. Now imagine this private business(the hospital) decides it doesn't want to serve blacks or muslims or gays or hell even Christians for whatever "deeply held belief" they might have. This is the whole reason for anti-discrimination laws that prevent businesses from discriminating against people based on certain characteristics.Because it would be pretty obvious why you were turning down the work if you kept turning down a certain type of customer.
The fear people have is that you can be gay (or black, muslim, etc) and live in a community where everyone is denying you service.
ffs aren't there a zillion options for obtaining a wedding cake without going to all this bs ?? How hard is it to go pick up a packet of freaking white wings cake mix and do it for yourself
My mother bakes wedding cakes. They use a special icing called fondant. She also photographs weddings. My mother doesn't have a business but she would be against baking a cake for a gay couple. I find it morally reprehensible to force someone with her ideals to do so, no matter how much I might disagree with them.
Yep. Or that you live in a community with monopolized(or limited choice of) essential services that might refuse you service. This is the go-to example that I always give - it is very trivial and even somewhat funny when we are talking about wedding cakes or flower delivery services or wedding photographers... but imagine you live in a small town with a single private hospital and you rely on that hospital with no alternatives anywhere close enough to maintain your life. Now imagine this private business(the hospital) decides it doesn't want to serve blacks or muslims or gays or hell even Christians for whatever "deeply held belief" they might have. This is the whole reason for anti-discrimination laws that prevent businesses from discriminating against people based on certain characteristics.
The wedding cakes are trivial, the problem is when you extend this to a more broad context and see just how much private businesses can influence the lives of the 'wrong type' of people.
Seriously morons, there really isn't a constitutional protection because your name is Joe. Your name is not a "protected class." If your name is Joe and you're black, you could make a racial discrimination case, but it wouldn't be because your name is Joe. If you phoned in an order for Jose, and the dude said "screw that!" you could possibly make some assumptions. . .
I'd hate to see the Preparation H bill for all of the butthurt you guys carry.
I agree. There is no reason a private citizen should be forced into baking anything for anyone they prefer to not bake for.
Same argument was used to defend Jim Crow laws. Just so you know.
My mother bakes wedding cakes. They use a special icing called fondant. She also photographs weddings. My mother doesn't have a business but she would be against baking a cake for a gay couple. I find it morally reprehensible to force someone with her ideals to do so, no matter how much I might disagree with them.
I personally think there should be some employee threshold for these mom and pop businesses, within reason. For example, the only gas station for miles won't sell gas to a gay dude, that would be ********. But a single woman running a photo business? Leave her alone. Let's say the threshold is 5 employees - random number.
Businesses and government institutions are not private citizens.
How about a single woman that's the only wedding photographer in a 1-hour radius? What if the gas station only has two or three employees, are they still exempted?
Running a business, as opposed to doing something as a contractor or a private citizen, comes with certain government protections, and it's reasonable to expect certain behaviors from businesses you would not ask of private citizens.
You said "no reason" You did not say "no law" Are we having a discussion on morality or one on legality? I thought it was the former.
Mom-and-pop private enterprises are still businesses. They may not be corporations.
Regulations on small businesses are often different (more lenient) from corporations.
So, you are correcting my vocabulary? OK.
If we are having a discussion on morality, why did you bring up Jim Crow laws? I responded to you bring up laws.
Are you saying that I should be forced to bake for people I don't approve of (I don't bake for a living)? Does that depend upon whom I disapprove of? idestroyedthetoilet said his mom does not have a business. Why should we force her to do anything?
idestroyedthetoilet said his mom does not have a business. Why should we force her to do anything?
How about a single woman that's the only wedding photographer in a 1-hour radius? What if the gas station only has two or three employees, are they still exempted?
Running a business, as opposed to doing something as a contractor or a private citizen, comes with certain government protections, and it's reasonable to expect certain behaviors from businesses you would not ask of private citizens.
We force her to do lots of things. Not poison her customers. Not hire child laborers. Not refuse service to minorities. Meet any verbal contracts to provide services to customers. I could list a thousand things. Running a mom and pop business does not give anyone impunity. So So I really don't understand what you are saying.
If you don't have a business, you don't have customers, or laborers. Any verbal contracts are between private citizens. If you don't have a business, you don't have a mom-and-pop business. It seems fairly clear to me. I'm not sure what you don't understand.