Terrorist Attack in Turkey Kills 28

[♪alt13]

People like their "divisions" to much. Just look at the British. They are openly contemplating leaving the EU. Scotland wants to leave England. Catalonia wants to leave Spain, Kurds want to leave Turkey/Syria/Iraq.

A strong, unified EU would be good for America. But it won't happen. People are tribal and in todays world society those tribes are often nations.

Maybe the US should join this unified EU you speak of.

Why is people governing themselves such a bad thing. Why are larger states with less representation per capita preferable to smaller ones?

 

[addictionary]

So you're concerned about the reputation of your national identity but dismiss history and the complaints of minorities within your country? They are nationalists but Turks are not?

In the US we were insanely oppressive to Native Americans and African Americans. We committed acts of genocide. We wrote discrimination into our Constitution, raped, murdered, enslaved, tortured, confiscated their property, abducted their children and forced them to abandon their mother tongue. Today I think it is safe to say that most African Americans and Native Americans are proud to call themselves American citizens. How? Why?

I think it's because we have finally been honest about our history, we started to listen to their complaints and we began the process of addressing them.

I think America being the "land of free" and promising more than Turkey has got something to do with it. If you had a lesser control over your own people as a lake of social groups that include ones that wants to form another country by taking soil from you which includes people that do not want to get separated, then you would have similar problems.

I actually am over my young blood excitement to bash the capitalist US about everything and I love the way things work out there at some ways. Especially people leaving the different alone part. If we are ever to see some calm in our lifetimes, we need to be like Americans in showing tolerance towards the ones that we do not share much in common with. Because everything is going **** in here and the leaders are pushing the society into the fire for political rant.

What you said in the 1st paragraph, I think you misunderstood something I said. I did not reject anything, although if you mean genocide, I do reject it. It is a one side propaganda of many terrible things happened and sufferings made by both hands. If you mean the Kurds, they too suffered but again through the hands of politicized military and party settings, their speech has become a part of the propaganda they keep cooking for years that includes Kurds are discriminated. There is nothing like the back then invaders of America had done to the Native Americans. Or the enslavement of African Americans. We were never that savage, sorry. The conflicts that were happened never were these kinds of inhuman acts.

Maybe the entire blurriness of our problems instead of being clear slavers and genociders make our problems hard to go away. If the lines were sharper, the backfire would be harsher but it would be solved for good. Instead, our problems just hang in the purgatory.

 

[Stoked]

Maybe the US should join this unified EU you speak of.

Why is people governing themselves such a bad thing. Why are larger states with less representation per capita preferable to smaller ones?

I never hinted at or said any of those things.

All I did say was that a unified EU is better for America. I never said if it was better or worse for European nations.

 

[addictionary]

Maybe the US should join this unified EU you speak of.

Why is people governing themselves such a bad thing. Why are larger states with less representation per capita preferable to smaller ones?

It's never a bad thing. The nationalism and unity state ideal is the reason people cannot govern themselves. You cannot wake up to the idea to cut some soil from the "nation states" and form your country is what is the problem. And when you spill blood and the ones who made it spill are still in action, you cannot expect the "nation state" and their people to suddenly feel it's OK to let you decide your own and meet your demands.

 

[BTP]

What you said in the 1st paragraph, I think you misunderstood something I said. I did not reject anything, although if you mean genocide, I do reject it. It is a one side propaganda of many terrible things happened and sufferings made by both hands. If you mean the Kurds, they too suffered but again through the hands of politicized military and party settings, their speech has become a part of the propaganda they keep cooking for years that includes Kurds are discriminated. There is nothing like the back then invaders of America had done to the Native Americans. Or the enslavement of African Americans. We were never that savage, sorry. The conflicts that were happened never were these kinds of inhuman acts.

Maybe the entire blurriness of our problems instead of being clear slavers and genociders make our problems hard to go away. If the lines were sharper, the backfire would be harsher but it would be solved for good. Instead, our problems just hang in the purgatory.

No offense, but please google the words 'Turkey' and 'Armenia' in context.

And regarding Kurds. I think the main problem is the unwillingness of Erdogan to address their needs and support the regions in which they live(I mean if you say you're not supporting/tolerating their desire to achieve independence, then their area should be developed like the rest of Turkey, right?)
It's always the responsibility of the stronger party to initiate dialogue and try to be inclusive. And in regards to Kurds I don't see none of it in Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Iran.

 

[addictionary]

No offense, but please google the words 'Turkey' and 'Armenia' in context.

And regarding Kurds. I think the main problem is the unwillingness of Erdogan to address their needs and support the regions in which they live(I mean if you say you're not supporting/tolerating their desire to achieve independence, then their area should be developed like the rest of Turkey, right?)
It's always the responsibility of the stronger party to initiate dialogue and try to be inclusive. And in regards to Kurds I don't see none of it in Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Iran.

If you are a doctor in PKK territory, you face death. Same with teacher and engineer not to mention government official or armed personnel. I don't support Erdoğan one bit but there is no discrimination against Kurds in Turkey. In fact He and the Kurds demolished the founding values of the country together and ate the best piece of the cake together. Now Erdogan is using the attack to radicalize his political ground and gain support for his chance to become president as changing the regime.

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[♪alt13]

I think America being the "land of free" and promising more than Turkey has got something to do with it. If you had a lesser control over your own people as a lake of social groups that include ones that wants to form another country by taking soil from you which includes people that do not want to get separated, then you would have similar problems.

I actually am over my young blood excitement to bash the capitalist US about everything and I love the way things work out there at some ways. Especially people leaving the different alone part. If we are ever to see some calm in our lifetimes, we need to be like Americans in showing tolerance towards the ones that we do not share much in common with. Because everything is going **** in here and the leaders are pushing the society into the fire for political rant.

What you said in the 1st paragraph, I think you misunderstood something I said. I did not reject anything, although if you mean genocide, I do reject it. It is a one side propaganda of many terrible things happened and sufferings made by both hands. If you mean the Kurds, they too suffered but again through the hands of politicized military and party settings, their speech has become a part of the propaganda they keep cooking for years that includes Kurds are discriminated. There is nothing like the back then invaders of America had done to the Native Americans. Or the enslavement of African Americans. We were never that savage, sorry. The conflicts that were happened never were these kinds of inhuman acts.

Maybe the entire blurriness of our problems instead of being clear slavers and genociders make our problems hard to go away. If the lines were sharper, the backfire would be harsher but it would be solved for good. Instead, our problems just hang in the purgatory.

The Native Americans committed terrible acts. There are accounts of them murdering whole families but that doesn't mean that what we did was not genocidal. Among the acts that I would consider to be genocidal is the "Trail of Tears". Native Americans were disarmed and forced by soldiers to march to Oklahoma without adequate food, water, or shelter. Many did not make it to Oklahoma. Did the Turks not commit a similar act against its Armenian population? Did Turkey not also round up men execute them and bury them in mass graves? Those are acts of genocide. None of that would make me question the social character of Turkey today but the denial of it does.

Sorry but I just can't help but be honest about how I see it.

It's never a bad thing. The nationalism and unity state ideal is the reason people cannot govern themselves. You cannot wake up to the idea to cut some soil from the "nation states" and form your country is what is the problem. And when you spill blood and the ones who made it spill are still in action, you cannot expect the "nation state" and their people to suddenly feel it's OK to let you decide your own and meet your demands.

I reject this. I believe this attitude leads to horrific events. I believe that the right of peoples to continue to exist is sacrosanct but not the state. I believe that any state must persuade peoples and nations to allow it to govern, it must not force them and one people or nation has no right to force its state on another. If the people of a region express the desire to divorce themselves from their state they should be given a democratic means to decide whether to do so.

 

[addictionary]

The Native Americans committed terrible acts. There are accounts of them murdering whole families but that doesn't mean that what we did was not genocidal. Among the acts that I would consider to be genocidal is the "Trail of Tears". Native Americans were disarmed and forced by soldiers to march to Oklahoma without adequate food, water, or shelter. Many did not make it to Oklahoma. Did the Turks not commit a similar act against its Armenian population? Did Turkey not also round up men execute them and bury them in mass graves? Those are acts of genocide. None of that would make me question the social character of Turkey today but the denial of it does.

Sorry but I just can't help but be honest about how I see it.



I reject this. I believe this attitude leads to horrific events. I believe that the right of peoples to continue to exist is sacrosanct but not the state. I believe that any state must persuade peoples and nations to allow it to govern, it must not force them and one people or nation has no right to force its state on another. If the people of a region express the desire to divorce themselves from their state they should be given a democratic means to decide whether to do so.

All I am saying is if you spill blood to divorce, you won't make your soon to be ex any more willing to let you get away with your actions and do what you want. Especially if you still keep killing and raising generations with enemy like hatred. This only leaves people on the other side that feel like stabbed in the back.

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[♪alt13]

All I am saying is if you spill blood to divorce, you won't make your soon to be ex any more willing to let you get away with your actions and do what you want. Especially if you still keep killing and raising generations with enemy like hatred. This only leaves people on the other side that feel like stabbed in the back.

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You mean like what's going on in Palestine? Does Israel as the more powerful party not have greater responsibility to resolve the issue? Is the existence of Palestinian terrorist groups an adequate excuse for them to deny Palestinians their right to self determination?

 

[addictionary]

You mean like what's going on in Palestine? Does Israel as the more powerful party not have greater responsibility to resolve the issue? Is the existence of Palestinian terrorist groups an adequate excuse for them to deny Palestinians their right to self determination?

And when did we use unbalanced force like them against Armenians you speak of who are mostly militias or attackers to the escorts or Kurdish militias now? When Israel is executing unarmed people on streets Turkish soldiers were calling for PKK militia to surrender even under gunfire instead of senselessly destroying them. And did Turkey come out and suddenly claimed that the lands these people live in are their rightful promised lands because Mohammed said so?

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[♪alt13]

And when did we use unbalanced force like them against Armenians you speak of who are mostly militias or attackers to the escorts or Kurdish militias now? When Israel is executing unarmed people on streets Turkish soldiers were calling for PKK militia to surrender even under gunfire instead of senselessly destroying them. And did Turkey come out and suddenly claimed that the lands these people live in are their rightful promised lands because Mohammed said so?

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Even if the Turkish state didn't shoot unarmed people the Kurds still have a right to self determination. Still please watch the video below.
https://www.reuters.com/video/2016/02/01/un-urges-turkey-to-probe-shooting-of-una?videoId=367245961

 

[addictionary]

Even if the Turkish state didn't shoot unarmed people the Kurds still have a right to self determination. Still please watch the video below.
https://www.reuters.com/video/2016/02/01/un-urges-turkey-to-probe-shooting-of-una?videoId=367245961

This is insane. As like the situation in Cizre and Sur. This guy has completely damaged this nation. Although the Turkish side claims the shootings were not made by them I don't even wanna argue about who did it. This is utterly insane. Political debate over this is pointless. Same for people who got shot by PKK unarmed. When it could stop peacefully they did not let it stop. Neither PKK nor Erdoğan. Blood sucking vampires.

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