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The 2018 UN Climate Report

Reading this thread I see a bunch of concerns including: 1) global warming, 2) over-population, 3) water shortages, 4) negative population growth. First off, everyone relax because we are just living in a matrix and none of this is real. Second, all of these items will naturally work themselves out with technology and shifting costs/incentives (e.g., if there is water shortage then raising meat will be more expensive, so the cost will be higher, and less of it will be consumed).

What you should really be worried about is the national debt, since that will be what limits how much money is available to overcome any social challenge. Remember, any problem can be fixed with enough money, and even tiny setbacks are devastating without it. Every dollar spent now on our relatively small problems takes away from what is available to address future serious problems.

Does war, slavery, economic/societal instability, and death count as “working themselves out?” That’s typically been the human response when “working things out.”

Technology can and will work many things out. The market can and will work many things out. But you’re ignoring a lot of other parts in-between point A and point B. Changing the energy sources we use, family planning, and food we consume is going to be very unpleasant.

Hell, just look at the violence and anger over family planning in an advanced country, like the USA. You don’t think millions of people are in sub-Sahara Africa going to suffer in the next 100 years adjusting from rapid growth countries to stable/negative growth? You don’t see a clash between women using birth control and demanding more rights and control over their bodies and the entrenched culture/religious beliefs of that continent?

Oooookay...
 
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Reading this thread I see a bunch of concerns including: 1) global warming, 2) over-population, 3) water shortages, 4) negative population growth. First off, everyone relax because we are just living in a matrix and none of this is real. Second, all of these items will naturally work themselves out with technology and shifting costs/incentives (e.g., if there is water shortage then raising meat will be more expensive, so the cost will be higher, and less of it will be consumed).

What you should really be worried about is the national debt, since that will be what limits how much money is available to overcome any social challenge. Remember, any problem can be fixed with enough money, and even tiny setbacks are devastating without it. Every dollar spent now on our relatively small problems takes away from what is available to address future serious problems.

desalination technology is improving. Desal water projects already have comproble cost/benefit with natural water development.

Water reuse is going to prove even better on cost/benefit results.

Las Vegas has achieved a very high wasterwater recovery ratio, though the xeroscaping and water cops are a nuisance.

Los Angeles is following Las Vegas' route, but will also be building desal plants.

Overpopulation worldwide has been a catastrophe since pre-historical ages when there just weren't enough fruit trees, berries, and nuts to feed our little bands. We fixed it a bit, for a while, when we started hunting. We fixed it again, for a while, when we started keeping domestic herds. We fixed it again, for a while, when we started planting stuff we could use for food.

We've fixed it a thousand times, allowing population to increase incrementally.

The latest "fix", the industrial revolution and modern medicine, may have put us, for the first time, in a sort of philosophical conundrum. What impacts are our actions having on planet earth, and can we just go on doing this sort of thing.

It is exactly the same philosophical conundrum the first little villages faced with the question of where we should go poop.

The answer, still, to organize community/societal standards for maintaining our environment. Some Big heads think the answer is less population. Maybe. Some of those folks are really really smart.

But here is my question. Have flies or mosquitos ever needed to do birth control. yah yah we do it for them with pesticides and we poison ourselves as well in doing it. But overpopulation has always been the reality for every living thing in the universe, and it is in fact the strategy of nature that has driven evolution and all progress. When we....our genetics.... are tested by overpopulation and all kinds of natural survival challenges.... to extent that only a fraction will in fact survive to reproduce..... we remain healthy..... that is.... those who survive are more healthy. If we just let the successful system function, every "overpopulation" crisis resolves with a natural limit imposed by resources....niches.... it is the job of "overpopulation" to force the search for need suitable sites for life.

It will prove to still be true if we limit population and excessively care for the weaklings. We will experience declining genetic strength, and we might even go extinct if we fail to maintain our genetic health.....

So Bill Gates and Oprah and a whole lot of other majorly influential folks today, are just dead wrong, imo.

We should improve technology and expand population and send colonies off to the Moon, Mars, the Asteroids and on out of our little galactic neighborhood, as others have done before us...… Lots of situations out there to test our genetic and intellectual strength....
 

My source for this is the founder of the Rockefeller clan. The problem is not how to increase production, but how to limit it. The genius was always buying out competitors and shutting them down.

Our energy policy, except to the Trump excursion..... has been aimed at.... reduced to the simplest possible terms.....

"Use theirs first."

The genius of the Brit vision of the world, essentially..... seeing the world as "The King's Forest"..... is that that is heaven for cartel interests. Locking up resources under their wholly-owned governmental institutions, enables cartels the world over to relax and raise prices. It is no concern of theirs that human populations will decline, they have their little castles, with their security gates and storage warehouses and servant staff. Their survival is not in question.....

yeah....but their genetics will go to pot pretty quick..... that's for sure. Inbred elites are their own worst enemies, and their "lines" of influence will die out faster than the wild type humans.

The day will come when some "pioneer" folks living on the edge of survival, will in their expansion, discover some of the ruins of past civilizations..... with impressive tombs and castles and stuff...… and will be at a loss for explaining how people with all that stuff could just die out.
 
Stopped reading at “den of thieves” lol. I tried to avoid blatantly partisan pieces.

You were reading Tom Engelhardt's preface. The actual essay by Michael Klare is not written in a partisan tone...

Yeah, I just scanned through Klare's essay again, which is titled and subtitled as follows:

The Strategy of Maximal Extraction
How Donald Trump Plans to Enlist Fossil Fuels in the Struggle for Global Dominance
--------------
I found it quite straight forward, you allowed Engelhardt's few words to condition your response. Obviously, neither you nor anyone else need read Klare's piece, but it simply describes the administration's aim of using fossil fuel extraction and exportation as a means towards dominance in the realm of foreign policy. It is absolutely not a partisan screed...

The reason I even included it in this thread is that we know Trump's attitude toward coal, and the other fossil fuels, and he has made known his attitude toward the subject of global warming. Given the stark warnings in the report at the center of this thread, it is highly relevant to examine a United States foreign policy under Trump that involves the militarization of fossil fuels at a time when we will need to reduce our reliance on such fuels.

Further, even I, who has made no secret that I am part of the Resistance to Trump, would not be making a partisan statement by pointing out Trump's promise to promote the use of coal stands in opposition to the recommendations of this report. That would simply be a statement of fact, based on Trump's own words, not my partisan approach otherwise.

I would not even describe Engelhardt as a political partisan. He simply stands opposed to American empire. I doubt very much you will find him uttering kind words toward either political party. I've certainly never found that to be the case, and I've been reading him for years. He stands in resistance to the foreign policy of both political parties, with the exception of being very much opposed to trashing our post war allies, a "philosophy" that does distinguish Trump's approach from his predecessors of both parties. As well, Engelhardt regards Trump's attitude toward the reality of global warming to be the crime that future generations will regard as Trump's greatest crime, in fact he regards it as a crime against humanity, given the results that will ensue from ignoring the problem.

And I'm not sure why my print is appearing dark. It resulted from copy and pasting Klare's title to his essay. Hey, you might actually learn something from it. Again, it is straightforward and factual. I doubt the administration itself would even object to what Klare describes. This component of our present foreign policy is quite clear for anyone to see.
 
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First off, everyone relax because we are just living in a matrix and none of this is real.

You know, that may be the case. Sometimes I like to remind myself that I am in this place, but not of this place, by which I mean if I and all other human beings partake of a spiritual nature, then that is the case. In this place, but not of this place. But people suffer, and they suffer mightily. So, if you are saying that in all seriousness, try telling an 8 year old child dying of terminal cancer to relax, we're in a matrix, no worries.
 
One of the facts that might be overlooked in this report is that we are in fact currently on pace to achieve a rise in temperatures a full 2 degrees higher then the report itself warns we must not achieve. Which may be behind the decision by these scientists to be alarmist in their tone, since these reports have otherwise been characterized by their conservative approach up to this point.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/...-genocide-coming-but-its-worse-than-that.html

.....the new report’s worst-case scenario is, actually, a best case. In fact, it is a beyond-best-case scenario. What has been called a genocidal level of warming is already our inevitable future. The question is how much worse than that it will get.

Barring the arrival of dramatic new carbon-sucking technologies, which are so far from scalability at present that they are best described as fantasies of industrial absolution, it will not be possible to keep warming below two degrees Celsius — the level the new report describes as a climate catastrophe. As a planet, we are coursing along a trajectory that brings us north of four degrees by the end of the century. The IPCC is right that two degrees marks a world of climate catastrophe. Four degrees is twice as bad as that. And that is where we are headed, at present — a climate hell twice as hellish as the one the IPCC says, rightly, we must avoid at all costs. But the real meaning of the report is not “climate change is much worse than you think,” because anyone who knows the state of the research will find nothing surprising in it. The real meaning is, “you now have permission to freak out.”

At two degrees, the melting of the Arctic ice sheets will pass a tipping point of collapse, flooding dozens of the world’s major cities this century — and threatening, over many centuries, to elevate sea level as much as 200 feet.

At three degrees, southern Europe will be in permanent drought. The average drought in Central America would last 19 months and in the Caribbean 21 months. In northern Africa, the figure is 60 months — five years. The areas burned each year by wildfires would double in the Mediterranean and sextuple in the United States.

At four degrees, there would be eight million cases of dengue fever each year in Latin America alone. Global grain yields could fall by as much as 50 percent, producing annual or close-to-annual food crises.

None of the above is news — most of that data is drawn from this single, conventional-wisdom fact sheet. In fact, nothing in the IPCC report is news, either; not to the scientific community or to climate activists or even to anyone who’s been a close reader of new research about warming over the last few years. That is what the IPCC does: It does not introduce new findings or even new perspectives, but rather corrals the messy mass of existing, pedigreed scientific research into consensus assessments designed to deliver to the policymakers of the world an absolutely unquestionable account of the state of knowledge.

Almost since the panel was convened, in 1988, it has been criticized for being too cautious in its assessment of the problem — a large body of temperamentally cautious scientists zeroing on those predictions they can all agree on (and which, they may have hoped, policymakers might find workable). The panel’s Wikipedia page has separate subsections for “Outdatedness of reports” and “Conservative nature of IPCC reports.”

Which is why it is so remarkable that the tone of this report is so alarmist — it’s not that the news about climate has changed, but that the scientific community is finally discarding caution in describing the implications of its own finding.
 
Elephant in the room:

We’re already paying the price for climate change. The Syrian civil war can be largely attributed to climate change. It led to millions of angry people who couldn’t make a decent living. Which led to Assad cracking down. Which ended up killing and displacing millions. Which has led to refugees and the rise of right wing populism through Europe and America.

People are still fighting in court to try and compel insurance companies to pay for the rebuilding after Harvey.

The one of the primary challenges of combating climate change is that it’s happening so subtly that people aren’t seeing that we’re already paying for it.

So you can pay extra now through lifestyle changes and higher taxes... or pay for it gradually over the next century with social and economic collapse, higher health care costs, and higher insurance premiums.
 
Elephant in the room:

We’re already paying the price for climate change. The Syrian civil war can be largely attributed to climate change. It led to millions of angry people who couldn’t make a decent living. Which led to Assad cracking down. Which ended up killing and displacing millions. Which has led to refugees and the rise of right wing populism through Europe and America.

People are still fighting in court to try and compel insurance companies to pay for the rebuilding after Harvey.

The one of the primary challenges of combating climate change is that it’s happening so subtly that people aren’t seeing that we’re already paying for it.

So you can pay extra now through lifestyle changes and higher taxes... or pay for it gradually over the next century with social and economic collapse, higher health care costs, and higher insurance premiums.

I take "comfort" in knowing I will be in my grave long before 2040, or probably 2030 for that matter. Heck of a thing to take comfort in, lol, but whatever. But, even at that, it does not mean I will escape the effects of global warming, anymore then the Florida panhandle population has escaped its effects. Its consequences. Warmer waters=stronger hurricanes. And I live on a coast where the waters are getting warmer, species of fish more common in waters south of us have become common here. And, maybe more to the point, where I live in southern New England, is way "overdue" for a major hurricane. Every hurricane season, I hope I don't see "the big one" heading my way, and so far I have not. But, hey, at least we have a president who says "I have a natural instinct for science". Anybody taking comfort in that? You bet, lol.
 
Great interview about the truth of global warming/climate change:



I don't think so....

https://skepticalscience.com/patrick-michaels-history-getting-climate-wrong.html

"A review of claims made by the Cato Institute's Patrick Michaels over the last quarter century shows that he has repeatedly been proven wrong over time. Michaels is one of a few contrarian climate scientists who is often featured in the media without disclosure of his funding from the fossil fuel industry."

https://exxonsecrets.org/html/personfactsheet.php?id=4

https://www.desmogblog.com/patrick-michaels

https://climateinvestigations.org/patrick-michaels-climate-denial/

https://climatefeedback.org/evaluat...the-climate-snow-job-the-wall-street-journal/
 
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I don't think so....

https://skepticalscience.com/patrick-michaels-history-getting-climate-wrong.html

"A review of claims made by the Cato Institute's Patrick Michaels over the last quarter century shows that he has repeatedly been proven wrong over time. Michaels is one of a few contrarian climate scientists who is often featured in the media without disclosure of his funding from the fossil fuel industry."

https://exxonsecrets.org/html/personfactsheet.php?id=4

https://www.desmogblog.com/patrick-michaels

https://climateinvestigations.org/patrick-michaels-climate-denial/

https://climatefeedback.org/evaluat...the-climate-snow-job-the-wall-street-journal/

Lol. Predictable as usual.
 
So why publish a major climate assessment on Black Friday? To minimize its news value, most likely.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/11/national-climate-assessment-black-friday/576589/

On Friday, the busiest shopping day of the year, the federal government published a massive and dire new report on climate change. The report warns, repeatedly and directly, that climate change could soon imperil the American way of life, transforming every region of the country, imposing frustrating costs on the economy, and harming the health of virtually every citizen.

Most significantly, the National Climate Assessment—which is endorsed by nasa, noaa, the Department of Defense, and 10 other federal scientific agencies—contradicts nearly every position taken on the issue by President Donald Trump. Where the president has insisted that fighting global warming will harm the economy, the report responds: Climate change, if left unchecked, could eventually cost the economy hundreds of billions of dollars per year, and kill thousands of Americans to boot. Where the president has said that the climate will “probably” “change back,” the report replies: Many consequences of climate change will last for millennia, and some (such as the extinction of plant and animal species) will be permanent.

The report is a huge achievement for American science. It represents cumulative decades of work from more than 300 authors. Since 2015, scientists from across the U.S. government, state universities, and businesses have read thousands of studies, summarizing and collating them into this document. By law, a National Climate Assessment like this must be published every four years.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/its-happening-its-now-says-u-s-government-report-on-climate-change
 
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