The 2024 Election Thread - Because It's Never Too Early to Feel Disappointed
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I thought about this alot. So pro life people (anti abortion really if we are being honest) are generally religious people and think abortion shouldn't be allowed because it's killing one of Gods innocent children.
I’d love for a pro lifer to comment on this. God also tells Saul to kill everything. Men, Women, children and livestock in 1 Sam 15:
1 Samuel also said unto Saul, The Lord sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the Lord.
2 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ***.
Abortion wasn’t really an issue for evangelicals until they realized that they could score politically by joining Catholics with it. Mainly, they could use abortion as an issue to ultimately serve racist purposes. It’s not about protecting children or being pro life. If it were, we’d see more “pro life” folks supporting education, health care, supporting the women, pro vax, etc. instead, it’s about shaming the women into submission. Controlling them. And ultimately using this issue to wage a culture war against African Americans and their Democratic allies.
It’s notable that Texas doesn’t have a law where you can get a bounty for a man who neglects to pay child support yet can turn in an uber driver who drives a woman to an abortion clinic.
www.nytimes.com
Excellent points. I hadn’t thought about this before. God is very pro abortion!
I’d love for a pro lifer to comment on this. God also tells Saul to kill everything. Men, Women, children and livestock in 1 Sam 15:
1 Samuel also said unto Saul, The Lord sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the Lord.
2 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ***.
Abortion wasn’t really an issue for evangelicals until they realized that they could score politically by joining Catholics with it. Mainly, they could use abortion as an issue to ultimately serve racist purposes. It’s not about protecting children or being pro life. If it were, we’d see more “pro life” folks supporting education, health care, supporting the women, pro vax, etc. instead, it’s about shaming the women into submission. Controlling them. And ultimately using this issue to wage a culture war against African Americans and their Democratic allies.
It’s notable that Texas doesn’t have a law where you can get a bounty for a man who neglects to pay child support yet can turn in an uber driver who drives a woman to an abortion clinic.
Opinion | Abortion Has Never Been Just About Abortion (Published 2021)
The way it became a “godsend” for the right is a peculiar tale.
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D
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I’m pro choice. Which means I believe abortion should be available, safe, and based on what the woman and doctor believe is right. Government should butt out. At least until the third trimester. Then I can see certain restrictions might be justified. I don’t believe god sucks. He doesn’t need us to condemn women. God can sort things out in the end and tell people what they should’ve done instead.
Seems like a lot of Christians in America believe that god sucks, like he’s a weak puny dude from Alabama. God doesn’t need our help to punish gays, women, immigrants, Muslims, marijuana users, or whoever Christians want to judge or beat up. If god can flood a planet then he can surely judge someone who got an abortion. He doesn’t need our help.
LogGrad98
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I'll sell 4! They are all past the age of 18 though. Still even for half price. It's a fire sale! Every kid must go!
You know it's also not about preventing abortion, or they'd support things like REAL sex ed, and contraception.
There are 2 competing genetic propagation strategies. One is to pump out as many children as possible and hope one or more of them is successful. This requires starting having children young. The other is to delay having children until you can devote a lot of resources to a smaller number of kids, thereby increasing each child's chance of success.
And that's fine, but don't try to force YOUR strategy on people.
yah gotta round'em up 'fore yah kin sell'em.
well, I'll comment here on the above several posts about God.
We all try to tell other people stuff. And that's fine, until we start forcing others.
I don't think we can really judge God from either the Bible, or believers. Nobody knows much about the Bible, or God, or others' beliefs.
The Bible deserves respect as a sort of collection of stories that have been important in teaching across many generations, because those teachings produced some significant civilizations. A lot of good values which have functioned successfully in spite of misuse, abuse, and wild disregard at times.
Karl Marx just hated religion, so he made his own. He neglected his wife and children, and lived like a bum, and produced a sort of logic for destroying everything, on the hope for "building back better". A lot of educated people trying to be scientific have advanced ideas they think are better, but there's still a lot of people who don't see the worth in believing in it.
The Biblical tradition actually has a more humane sort of character. Abraham argued with God trying to get God to spare the sinners if only a few good people could be found. All of the important great characters of the Bible are represented realistically as humans with good and bad in them, except Jesus. And Jesus is reputed to have given his life to save sinners.
From the Bible, I think that progressives have no right to complain about the flood, or destroyed cities or peoples. The Great Reset, with population targets and all, is essentially the same idea. It's Marx's world in the Destruction phase, in order to "Build Back Better".
Any possible God would, in my moral sensibilities, have to care what kind of world people have made, and do a few "Great Resets" if needed.......
Red
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It’s also pretty relevant as as an historical document. Especially when disciplines such as archaeology can offer support for events described in the Bible.
This is off topic, but in the news this week, really an incredible discovery, taking 15 years of research, and scientists from at least half a dozen disciplines. Having been involved in meteoritics, as a hobby, for decades, I can say that the type and amount of evidence presented here is overwhelmingly compelling. The evidence, taken as a whole, really only allows one explanation. An astonishing discovery, IMHO, once again affirming the bible’s value as an historical document.
This short article is written by 4 of the study’s co-authors, and the link to their study is in the article. The nearest thing to this, in modern times, was the Tunguska air burst, over Siberia in 1908, which was either an asteroid or comet, and which flattened 82 million trees, over an area 600 miles wide. And the meteoritic air burst that destroyed this biblical town, that may have been reflected in the biblical story of Sodom, was 10x larger than the Tunguska event.
Hope nobody minds me posting so off-topic. This is one of the most exciting archaeological discoveries in a very long time, I considered actually starting its own thread. Especially as we just had the flyby, very, very close flyby, of a large asteroid that nobody saw coming, since it approached the Earth in the daytime, and from the direction of the sun….
Retracted: A giant space rock demolished an ancient Middle Eastern city and everyone in it – possibly inspiring the Biblical story of Sodom
This article was based on research that has been retracted. See editor’s note.
theconversation.com
“Flashing through the atmosphere, the rock exploded in a massive fireball about 2.5 miles (4 kilometers) above the ground. The blast was around 1,000 times more powerful than the Hiroshima atomic bomb. The shocked city dwellers who stared at it were blinded instantly. Air temperatures rapidly rose above 3,600 degrees Fahrenheit (2,000 degrees Celsius). Clothing and wood immediately burst into flames. Swords, spears, mudbricks and pottery began to melt. Almost immediately, the entire city was on fire.
Some seconds later, a massive shockwave smashed into the city. Moving at about 740 mph (1,200 kph), it was more powerful than the worst tornado ever recorded. The deadly winds ripped through the city, demolishing every building. They sheared off the top 40 feet (12 m) of the 4-story palace and blew the jumbled debris into the next valley. None of the 8,000 people or any animals within the city survived – their bodies were torn apart and their bones blasted into small fragments.
About a minute later, 14 miles (22 km) to the west of Tall el-Hammam, winds from the blast hit the biblical city of Jericho. Jericho’s walls came tumbling down and the city burned to the ground”.
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LogGrad98
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Yeah this could be the genesis (pun intended) of more than 1 biblical story and prophecy. Who knows how many other similar things we might yet uncover. More and more the biblical accounts for many large disasters wrought by "God" are being shown to likely be massive-scale natural disasters that the superstitious people at the time could neither explain nor even understand, and therefore could only attribute to the wrath of their God.It’s also pretty relevant as as an historical document. Especially when disciplines such as archaeology can offer support for events described in the Bible.
This is off topic, but in the news this week, really an incredible discovery, taking 15 years of research, and scientists from at least half a dozen disciplines. Having been involved in meteoritics, as a hobby, for decades, I can say that the type and amount of evidence presented here is overwhelmingly compelling. The evidence, taken as a whole, really only allows one explanation. An astonishing discovery, IMHO, once again affirming the bible’s value as an historical document.
This short article is written by 4 of the study’s co-authors, and the link to their study is in the article. The nearest thing to this, in modern times, was the Tunguska air burst, over Siberia in 1908, which was either an asteroid or comet, and which flattened 82 million trees, over an area 600 miles wide. And the meteoritic air burst that destroyed this biblical town, that may have been reflected in the biblical story of Sodom, was 10x larger than the Tunguska event.
Hope nobody minds me posting so off-topic. This is one of the most exciting archaeological discoveries in a very long time, I considered actually starting its own thread. Especially as we just had the flyby, very, very close flyby, of a large asteroid that nobody saw coming, since it approached the Earth in the daytime, and from the direction of the sun….
Retracted: A giant space rock demolished an ancient Middle Eastern city and everyone in it – possibly inspiring the Biblical story of Sodom
This article was based on research that has been retracted. See editor’s note.
“Flashing through the atmosphere, the rock exploded in a massive fireball about 2.5 miles (4 kilometers) above the ground. The blast was around 1,000 times more powerful than the Hiroshima atomic bomb. The shocked city dwellers who stared at it were blinded instantly. Air temperatures rapidly rose above 3,600 degrees Fahrenheit (2,000 degrees Celsius). Clothing and wood immediately burst into flames. Swords, spears, mudbricks and pottery began to melt. Almost immediately, the entire city was on fire.
Some seconds later, a massive shockwave smashed into the city. Moving at about 740 mph (1,200 kph), it was more powerful than the worst tornado ever recorded. The deadly winds ripped through the city, demolishing every building. They sheared off the top 40 feet (12 m) of the 4-story palace and blew the jumbled debris into the next valley. None of the 8,000 people or any animals within the city survived – their bodies were torn apart and their bones blasted into small fragments.
About a minute later, 14 miles (22 km) to the west of Tall el-Hammam, winds from the blast hit the biblical city of Jericho. Jericho’s walls came tumbling down and the city burned to the ground”.
Red
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Thanks. Spot on, IMHO. Yes, that’s what I’ve been visualizing for awhile now. I had been speaking with one of my sisters, after sending her the clip of Steve Bannon saying he had urged an insurrection on January 6th in order “to kill the Biden administration in the crib”. And I told her:
It’s like listening to and watching fascists acting with impunity to take over our country. Like we don’t matter at all. And it’s somehow just allowed. Maybe it just says democracy is not a given. The Trump Republicans, which is most of the Party, and their media propagandists, will end democracy if not stopped. Democracy can’t be taken for granted. In hindsight, it’s not that surprising that an American form of fascism could succeed here. Just need a perfect storm of historical circumstances, no intrinsic reason Americans would be immune from this. “It can’t happen here” was always just a reflection of how Americans assumed they were “exceptional”, when in fact of course we are not, first of all, and, as well, the old, original KKK is regarded as the first fascist movement of the modern era, so there has been, and is, an undercurrent of these dark elements in our country that can escape the margins here. And it has escaped the margins.
——————————
Anyway, great essay, if so depressing. The psychological state I find myself in is a form of unceasing frustration, a feeling of powerlessness, helplessness, watching what that columnist describes, seeing it very clearly, and too many Americans supporting it, or sleeping right through it blind. I like to say “never sleepwalk through that portion of History that is yours to live”. Yet, sleepwalk Americans do, so, internally for myself, the combination of awareness of what is happening and helplessness in the face of it, is an awful state of being. It’s painful, knowing what will be will be….