The Battle Begins

[PearlWatson]

"fair" has always been an ideological pipe dream. The offspring of bad mothers have never had very good chances of survival, in any species.

In regard human freedom or survival, bad government hasn't proved helpful, either.

humans who want children and who protect and nurture their offspring, and who value human freedom, will by all odds prove to be the successful progenitors of the species.

By that standard, folks without those commitments just are not the mainsprings of human progress.

Meanwhile, folks are already cultivating fertilzed ova in fertility clinics through several stages of development, and these clinics are already flush with legal forms requiring the signatures of both mother and father in regard to the disposal/use of these humans, except unwed fathers are completely disregarded, and even recently divorced fathers may be disregarded, just as in adoption decisions. Nobody knows how many men are just never told about their potential kid.

They should be, but they aren't. I have friends who adopted a baby of an unwed mother and when she was 6 months old the sperm donor showed up with a free lawyer to try to take her from them. They had to spend thousands to try to keep their adopted child.

 

[babe]

How does an unwed father (other than an anonymous sperm donor) wind up with embryos in a fertility clinic and not know it?

not entirely an impossibility. Anonymous donors either actually donate or are paid. And sign away their rights. . .

I worked in a lab doing paternity determinations. Some of the women who were asked to list potential fathers of their unborn had really, really, long lists, and many couldn't remember them all.

But you've got a good question. Let's just say some women can be duplicitous while seeking help in conception, perhaps under pressure from a spouse with fertility issues, even while paying ten thousand dollars for an AI procedure. . . .

A coworker in that lab told me the reason why the Jewish folks resort to matrilineal descent for establishing Jewishness, that "It's a wise child who knows his father."

 

[JohnStockalypse]

As soon as the man can grow the offsrping inside his body instead, it'll be absolutely fair.

So we punish the father with the death of a child just because he was born without a womb? Remember when women were denied rights because of a lack of *****? Bet that was awesome...

 

[PearlWatson]

Either is correct. However, the phrase "global warming" confused some simple people, who didn'tunderstand that overall warming didn't mean uniform worming (so some places might actually be cooler), and this was taken advantage of by denialists. So, the term climate change was adopted as being less confusing in that regard. Of course, we won't have such stupidity in this thread, right?

What about the arrival of summer is climate change? Summer is a part of our climate. I may have to retract a sentence from my previous paragraph.

Temperatures increase during summer. We are talking about temperatures aren't we?

That would be weird if it in any way reflected reality. You asked for a prediction, not the scope of evolutionary theory.

You claimed a theory makes a prediction with a precise timeline and a mechanism.
I asked you to demonstrate that "The theory of evolution" did these things.
You failed.
This is exactly why I said the "theory of evolution" is an undefined dogma, and you haven't shown me otherwise.

 

[One Brow]

So we punish the father with the death of a child just because he was born without a womb? Remember when women were denied rights because of a lack of *****? Bet that was awesome...

In a situation where you can't giveeveryone the desired outcome, you fall back on basic principles. Basic principle: the woman doesn't have to use her body to please the man.

 

[JohnStockalypse]

In a situation where you can't giveeveryone the desired outcome, you fall back on basic principles. Basic principle: the woman doesn't have to use her body to please the man.

The pleasing the man part is already over.

 

[PearlWatson]

In a situation where you can't giveeveryone the desired outcome, you fall back on basic principles. Basic principle: the woman doesn't have to use her body to please the man.

She already chose to.

 

[One Brow]

Temperatures increase during summer. We are talking about temperatures aren't we?

Already answeredin the post to which you responded.

You claimed a theory makes a prediction with a precise timeline and a mechanism.

As a general thing part of being a theory? I don't think so.

I asked you to demonstrate that "The theory of evolution" did these things.
You failed.

https://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA210.html
https://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA215.html

This is exactly why I said the "theory of evolution" is an undefined dogma, and you haven't shown me otherwise.

I am quite certain that no amount of evidence will show you otherwise.

 

[One Brow]

She already chose to.

She is not required to continue doing so.

 

[One Brow]

The pleasing the man part is already over.

So, you don't think giving birth to a child would have been pleasing to this particular man? Nice to see you agree he has no argument.

 

[JohnStockalypse]

So should a man be allowed to force a woman to have an abortion? Don't use his sperm to please her?

 

[One Brow]

Sperm only lives for abut 72 hours. By the time there is an abortion, there is no sperm.