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The Thriller

Well-Known Member
I just don't understand at all why they brought anyone's kids into this conversation.
A troll thrives when he can troll and people take him seriously. A troll hates it when he trolls and everyone either ignores him/recognizes his trolling behavior. That’s been happening more and more with him. Most posters are either ignoring him or calling him out.

I have him on block but it’s pretty obvious the tide really turned with his endless spin about the FBI raid on Mar-a-lago. I saw posts from I believe Fish, LG, and Game calling him out. Rather than admit he was wrong in defending Trump, he dug deeper. When he dug deeper, other posters called him out. They called him
Dishonest, which is one of the main lapses in character I recognized from him out of the gate. He spins and lies in his arguing here, making engagement frustrating and not enlightening or informative. Because his feelings got hurt in the latest exchanges this past week, he decided to lash out personally at a few posters. Sadly, you and your child were a main target.

A poster of better character and maturity might recognize his mistakes, own them, and change. I know I’ve said things that I regret. It has cost me relationships. Usually this happens when I’ve spent too much time online and without going outside and connecting with real human beings. Unfortunately, I have the feeling he’s going to continue to dig his hole deeper and continue to lash out. Burn relationships with people that shouldn’t be burned. He’ll make himself out to be the victim and a martyr for some conservative and noble cause. Perhaps at some point he might regret what he’s done? I have my doubts. I’d love for him to prove me wrong, for once.
 
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The Thriller

Well-Known Member
I get why religious conservatives are so concerned about pedophilia. They’re churches are riddled with sexual predators. They’re so worried about sharing a bathroom with a trans person, when their church leaders and youth organizations are facilitating and protecting child rapists.

Hey, before protesting a drag brunch and banning books, how about you police your own first.


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I really wish @colton still posted here. I’d love to hear his thoughts on this. Churches have never been perfect. But it definitely seems like the dominant religion in Utah has taken it on the nose these last few years. Either with so many members supporting Trump, issues related to the LGBT community, and now issues of race and bishops not reporting child abuse to law enforcement.

As someone who is moderately active in the LDS church, it’s becoming increasingly hard to defend the church’s main leadership up in Salt Lake. My local leadership and members are generally kind and caring people. But the questionable (at best) decisions made at the top almost make it untenable to maintain membership and activity within the church. I’d love to hear his thoughts… or anyone else’s here who’d like to talk about this.
 

BabyPeterzz

Well-Known Member
Contributor



Here’s the most recent news THIS MONTH. Tens of thousands of victims.

This is sick.

I am also interested to hear what the religious right is doing about this, funny it’s never mentioned by them. Their kids are in danger of being raped every Sunday, but they actively try to blame LGBTQ+ folks for grooming and SA.

Moral high ground my ***.

Edit: didn’t even post a Catholic Church article.

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Bucknutz

Well-Known Member



Here’s the most recent news THIS MONTH. Tens of thousands of victims.

This is sick.
It's incredibly sick.
I am also interested to hear what the religious right is doing about this, funny it’s never mentioned by them. Their kids are in danger of being raped every Sunday, but they actively try to blame LGBTQ+ folks for grooming and SA.

Moral high ground my ***.
Im not a religious right but I think this is larger problem than churches. This happens everywhere children are being watched. Schools, sports, scouts, church, homes, friends etc...

Private school: https://www.ajc.com/news/former-pri...eged-sexual-abuse/UPXKTKHQVBBZ5DK7LK6UMPTF3Q/

Home school: https://www.hsinvisiblechildren.org/themes-in-abuse/sexual-abuse/

Public school: https://www.redlandsdailyfacts.com/teacher-abuse/

Coaches: https://www.hallinjurylaw.com/a-comprehensive-investigation-of-sexual-abuse-in-youth-sports/

Churches: https://www.pennlive.com/news/erry-2018/05/5e56fa19a94444/child_sex_crimes_catholic_prie.html

Family: https://www.ywca.org/wp-content/uploads/WWV-CSA-Fact-Sheet-Final.pdf


Again, I don't believe its a complete religion, all teachers or coaches and family members. It's the individuals who commit the crime is sick. I WILL lump anyone who tries to protect the abuser with being sick. If that is a church lawyer, school administration, athletic director or any family member.

I don't know of any churches that teach their members to be sexual predators. I do believe that some would want to hide information to limit the PR nightmare; that is short sighted. It would be better to find and punish a predator as soon as there is an actual victim.

You just have to research who you kids are being left with. Its just gross and sick all around.

 

The Thriller

Well-Known Member
Churches don’t necessarily teach that pedophilia and sex abuse are okay but they don’t have the safety and reporting mechanisms that other major institutions (like public edu) have.

Take for example the LDS church.

1. Leaders are mostly men and are believed to receive revelation from god and hold the priesthood, something women don’t. As a result, they sit on top of the social hierarchy and questioning them is discouraged. If your bishop is abusing you… who do you go to report? Especially if you’ve been taught all your life that bishops are special people directed by god.

2. Churches all too often are proving to be increasingly more concerned with saving their own institutions that have been losing members than actually helping the abused. See Mormon church, Catholic Church, and the Southern Baptists.

3. The past is swept under the rug or rationalized away. Let’s use the LDS church as yet another example. Joseph Smith married multiple women and engaged in sexual acts with teenage girls. And no, this wasn’t normal or accepted even in the 1840s. Rather than confront these obscene acts, they’re either not discussed at all or spun in a more palatable way (god commanded him to have sex with that 14 year old or else he would’ve been damned! Wouldn’t you rape children if god commanded you to?). Even modern-day lessons on obedience, Nephi 3:7 and Abraham sacrificing his son, reinforce the indubitable superiority of priesthood leaders. “Do as you’re told or else!”

4. Ultimately, religions really struggle with their reporting the abuse that occurs. True, abuse can happen in a classroom or library. But it’s much harder for it to happen and much easier to report than churches. Can anyone point to a principal recently who swept child abuse under the rug? Can you pull hundreds of sex scandals where principals prioritized their positions or their school’s reputation over helping the abused like if you Google, “X church child sex abuse?”

5. I suppose this is another topic, but the way religions look at sex, dating and relationships is another factor that can lead to abuse. I don’t have the expertise here but I’m fairly certain that the way these things are approached can have real detrimental effects on abuse and how it’s reported.

So yeah, abuse can happen anywhere. But it happens in places where trust is exploited and isn’t reported because of hierarchy and fear and prioritized over the individual.
 
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Bucknutz

Well-Known Member
Churches don’t necessarily teach that pedophilia and sex abuse are okay but they don’t have the safety and reporting mechanisms that other major institutions (like public edu) have.
Safety and reporting mechanisms? Parents, friends, other church leadership. There are many people to turn too.

Take for example the LDS church.

1. Leaders are mostly men and are believed to receive revelation from god and hold the priesthood, something women don’t. As a result, they sit on top of the social hierarchy and questioning them is discouraged. If your bishop is abusing you… who do you go to report? Especially if you’ve been taught all your life that bishops are special people directed by god.
This is no different than any other institution. There is hierarchy at every institution, in business its called organizational chart or business hierarchy chart. In schools they also have an organizational chart. If a bishop is abusing you, there are many people you could reach out to: counselors, stake representatives, home teachers, youth teachers, parents. I have never been taught that bishops are special people. Bishops are a calling, assigned to person, who makes mistakes and is not perfect. Every calling is "directed" by god.

2. Churches all too often are proving to be increasingly more concerned with saving their own institutions that have been losing members than actually helping the abused. See Mormon church, Catholic Church, and the Southern Baptists.
The LDS church saw growth, even during the pandemic. https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2022/05/05/latest-mormon-land-church/

How is this defined? How can you make this statement? Because churches are losing members, they will not help a sexually abused victim?

3. The past is swept under the rug or rationalized away. Let’s use the LDS church as yet another example. Joseph Smith married multiple women and engaged in sexual acts with teenage girls. And no, this wasn’t normal or accepted even in the 1840s. Rather than confront these obscene acts, they’re either not discussed at all or spun in a more palatable way (god commanded him to have sex with that 14 year old or else he would’ve been damned! Wouldn’t you rape children if god commanded you to?). Even modern-day lessons on obedience, Nephi 3:7 and Abraham sacrificing his son, reinforce the indubitable superiority of priesthood leaders. “Do as you’re told or else!”
If you don't like the history of a church, why go there? If you don't like the teachings, why go there? It's like you want to blame the LDS church to justify your position. Abraham was told by god, not by a bishop, pastor or a prophet. Nephi was told by God as well. I don't see how this correlates with covering up sexual assault. The church doesn't tell its local bishop to go rape children or else. There are no modern-day lessons on touching youth inappropriately or else.

You are told to be obedient to you teachers at school. Youth might be scared of the principals, teachers or administrators because they can suspend them or give them detention.

4. Ultimately, religions really struggle with their reporting the abuse that occurs. True, abuse can happen in a classroom or library. But it’s much harder for it to happen and much easier to report than churches. Can anyone point to a principal recently who swept child abuse under the rug? Can you pull hundreds of sex scandals where principals prioritized their positions or their school’s reputation over helping the abused like if you Google, “X church child sex abuse?”
I took about 5 mins to just list these principals covering up sexual assaults. I can absolutely pull up 100's; that's only 3-4 a state.

Why is it harder for it to happen at schools than church. Typically parents are with their children at church, this is not the case for schools. Why is it easier to report at school?

New York - https://talkofthesound.com/2022/03/...istrict-covered-up-sexual-assaults-for-years/
Alaska - https://www.propublica.org/article/...omplaints-will-pay-3-8-million-to-his-victims
Illinois - https://blockclubchicago.org/2021/1...o-report-sexual-abuse-at-logan-square-school/
Texas - https://www.newsweek.com/five-arrested-christian-school-covering-sexual-assault-police-1680404
Connecticut - https://www.ctinsider.com/news/article/Police-Plymouth-school-employees-charged-with-17395602.php
California - https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Ex-Danville-high-school-principal-covered-up-sex-6086047.php
Texas - https://texasscorecard.com/local/pr...-abuse-cover-up-demand-superintendent-resign/
New York - https://www.rochesterfirst.com/crim...n-school-during-school-hours-prosecutors-say/
California - https://www.sbsun.com/2022/08/25/ri...ial-for-not-reporting-suspected-sexual-abuse/
Oregan - https://www.koin.com/news/oregon/ex...-principal-convicted-of-student-sexual-abuse/
Arizona - https://www.dlawgroup.com/arizona-principal-arrested-sexual-abuse-with-minor-students/
West Virginia - https://www.wfla.com/news/education...elling-students-to-not-report-sexual-assault/
California - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-steps-school-hit-sexual-assault-scandal.html -
Oklahoma - https://www.ocpathink.org/post/oklahoma-schools-ignoring-long-term-staff-abuse-of-students

You also forgot why a Youngkin won Virginia...sexual assault coverup by an administration.

So yeah, abuse can happen anywhere. But it happens in places where trust is exploited and isn’t reported because of hierarchy and fear and prioritized over the individual.
Agreed, but hierarchy is also everywhere. That's why those people who cover it up are sick and should be charged.
 

JazzGal

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Bucknutz, I don't agree with your defense of church leaders here. Maybe it seems logical to you that children should report sexual abuse to someone if it happens by a bishop, but I know many, many examples of that not happening. My sister, for example, was quite large breasted as a teenager, and our bishop at the time made several inappropriate comments to her. No, he didn't touch her, but he made her feel terrible. But he was the BISHOP, appointed by God. So somehow she believed she had done something wrong and didn't tell anyone for many years. She became anorexic during this time. This is a big problem with a male leader being alone in a room with a child or teenager. There is no one to hear or see.

But, as you say, there are people that you can report to. Except often women are not often believed because there is no way that such-and-such leader would ever do such a thing. It happens so often. The woman is the one who is chastised and punished. Again, there are so many examples of this among people I know.

Women in the LDS Church know that their position is the submissive one, no matter what they say over the pulpit. Everything reinforces it. Add that to the idea that one is not to question god's chosen leaders, and you have all the makings for abuse not being reported by victims.

I'm sure there are plenty of examples of boys/men being abused, but as I am not male I cannot comment on what that situation is like for them.

All the stories of churches trying to bury the abuses does not help anyone feel safe in coming forward.
 

LogGrad98

Well-Known Member
Contributor
2020-21 Award Winner
Bucknutz, I don't agree with your defense of church leaders here. Maybe it seems logical to you that children should report sexual abuse to someone if it happens by a bishop, but I know many, many examples of that not happening. My sister, for example, was quite large breasted as a teenager, and our bishop at the time made several inappropriate comments to her. No, he didn't touch her, but he made her feel terrible. But he was the BISHOP, appointed by God. So somehow she believed she had done something wrong and didn't tell anyone for many years. She became anorexic during this time. This is a big problem with a male leader being alone in a room with a child or teenager. There is no one to hear or see.

But, as you say, there are people that you can report to. Except often women are not often believed because there is no way that such-and-such leader would ever do such a thing. It happens so often. The woman is the one who is chastised and punished. Again, there are so many examples of this among people I know.

Women in the LDS Church know that their position is the submissive one, no matter what they say over the pulpit. Everything reinforces it. Add that to the idea that one is not to question god's chosen leaders, and you have all the makings for abuse not being reported by victims.

I'm sure there are plenty of examples of boys/men being abused, but as I am not male I cannot comment on what that situation is like for them.

All the stories of churches trying to bury the abuses does not help anyone feel safe in coming forward.
I understand the abuse of young males was part of the reason for separating from the boy scouts of America. Seems sending young vulnerable boys on camping trips with just a few adult males isn't a good thing either. Adult males are just trash all around it would seem.
 

Gameface

PICKS = FLEXIBILITY
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2020-21 Award Winner
I understand the abuse of young males was part of the reason for separating from the boy scouts of America. Seems sending young vulnerable boys on camping trips with just a few adult males isn't a good thing either. Adult males are just trash all around it would seem.
If your thing was abusing young boys being a boy scout leader would be a dream job.
 

Ron Mexico

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Bucknutz, I don't agree with your defense of church leaders here. Maybe it seems logical to you that children should report sexual abuse to someone if it happens by a bishop, but I know many, many examples of that not happening. My sister, for example, was quite large breasted as a teenager, and our bishop at the time made several inappropriate comments to her. No, he didn't touch her, but he made her feel terrible. But he was the BISHOP, appointed by God. So somehow she believed she had done something wrong and didn't tell anyone for many years. She became anorexic during this time. This is a big problem with a male leader being alone in a room with a child or teenager. There is no one to hear or see.

But, as you say, there are people that you can report to. Except often women are not often believed because there is no way that such-and-such leader would ever do such a thing. It happens so often. The woman is the one who is chastised and punished. Again, there are so many examples of this among people I know.

Women in the LDS Church know that their position is the submissive one, no matter what they say over the pulpit. Everything reinforces it. Add that to the idea that one is not to question god's chosen leaders, and you have all the makings for abuse not being reported by victims.

I'm sure there are plenty of examples of boys/men being abused, but as I am not male I cannot comment on what that situation is like for them.

All the stories of churches trying to bury the abuses does not help anyone feel safe in coming forward.
The fact they dont think its an issue to have youth alone in a room with one adult man asking inappropriate questions answers it all. I had a girlfriend when I was a teenager that we did things mormons feel cross the line and the amount of details and other stuff her bishop asked is gross at best. It is begging for abuse in these situations. It is almost like a trap for people prone to abusing, except no one is there to catch them. Bishops shouldnt be asked to do that, no one should allow them to be alone with people like that. These things happen in other places a lot unfortunately, but few places are set up better than churches and mormon churches to sweep it under a rug. It is pretty sad that a religion who obviously is oppose to this and preaches good things doesnt make drastic changes to prevent this and out anyone who does it right away. The processes they use are not scripture or really apart of their religion just how its been done and the culture, its pretty easy to change that to try and reduce this if you care. I guess god doesnt care to talk to mormons about abuse, just stick to that no drinking coffee, thats what matters.
 

Gameface

PICKS = FLEXIBILITY
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