The Biden Administration and All Things Politics

[str8line]

The gigantic problem with these types of arguments is that it ignores, and by necessity it has to ignore, the single biggest piece of evidence. When the Civil War started it was NOT between the Union and all slave holding states. A number of slave holding states fought on the side of the Union. The Civil War was between the anti-succeeding and the succeeding states. The primary issue was succession.

It is a good thing the Civil War resulted in the end of chattel slavery in the United States. Chattel slavery is evil, and the United States at its founding was steeped in it. As a country we need to believe the lie that we fought the Civil War at the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives to right that wrong.

Seceding and secession.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Seceding and secession.

fixed. thank you for catching it..

 

[str8line]

fixed. thank you for catching it..

lol, I'm sure you'll repay the favor someday.

 

[BabyPeterzz]

The gigantic problem with these types of arguments is that it ignores, and by necessity it has to ignore, the single biggest piece of evidence. When the Civil War started it was NOT between the Union and all slave holding states. A number of slave holding states fought on the side of the Union. The Civil War was between the anti-secession and the secession states. The primary issue was secession

It is a good thing the Civil War resulted in the end of chattel slavery in the United States. Chattel slavery is evil, and the United States at its founding was steeped in it. As a country we need to believe the lie that we fought the Civil War at the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives to right that wrong.

Why did those states want to secede?


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[Al-O-Meter]

Why did those states want to secede?

You'd have to go state by state to dive in to who did what and for what reason. I believe six of them included some mention of slavery as a motivating factor, but notice now you are arguing the cause of secession, not the cause of the Civil War. That tactic of switching subjects is common in this debate because the primary cause of the Civil War is inarguable. The primary issue was secession. As mentioned earlier, there were slave owning states fighting on the side of the Union against the seceding states.

 

[fishonjazz]

You'd have to go state by state to dive in to who did what and for what reason. I believe six of them included some mention of slavery as a motivating factor, but notice now you are arguing the cause of secession, not the cause of the Civil War. That tactic of switching subjects is common in this debate because the primary cause of the Civil War is inarguable. The primary issue was secession. As mentioned earlier, there were slave owning states fighting on the side of the Union against the seceding states.

You do have to realize that if the civil was due to secession and secession was due to slavery then........


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[Al-O-Meter]

You do have to realize that if the civil was due to secession and secession was due to slavery then........

The problem logically with what you are trying to do there is that it doesn't address the motivation of the anti-secessionist side, which we know wasn't slavery because there were slave-owning states fighting on the anti-secessionist side. There were 37 states involved in the US Civil War and 31 of them said absolutely nothing about slavery being the cause for their choosing to go to war. The Civil War was between secessionist and anti-secessionist states. That is as far as the blanket statements can be honestly stretched.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

You do have to realize that if the civil was due to secession and secession was due to slavery then........


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But the distinction is the war was not started to abolish slavery, and secession wasn't either. It was about economic and political control, including whether slavery should be expanded West, particularly in Kansas. South Carolina broke away after a Republican was elected, a party the South abhorred and not one of their voted were for him (the North immediately pulled in Kansas after secession by the South under the idea they now had the votes). It actually shows how scary some of Trumps rhetoric can me, as our country is so divided, I'm not sure how far either "side" pushes until there is chaos. The Capitol riot shows how crazy people can be. While I hope for Trump to be convicted, I also hope there is not backlash from MAGA zealots.

That is not to say the North wanted slavery to stick around, but the feeling from most was to let the South continue to have what was then protected under the law.

The tides began to change as the war went on, and the Emancipation Proclimation was the result, but keep in mind it was somewhat symbolical at the time regarding slaves freedome (only affected the North in this regard), at least until the states reunified after the South lost. However, it did tie the war directly to abolition at that time, and also allowed black soldiers to fight for the Union, which was a huge help to Union forces.

 

[BabyPeterzz]

Do those who try to say the Civil War wasn’t about slavery know they are parroting white nationalist, KKK, Nazi skinhead rhetoric? It’s wide out in the open now, and many don’t study the roots of these arguments. Straight from the pecker wood playbook.

I understand most normal *** conservatives don’t realize this. I grew up around these assholes, going to punk shows all my life. They’ve been saying these things for decades. It’s just new to them because many don’t remember the civil rights era and never heard an actual Nazi spew their garbage in real life. It’s now part of popular conservative talking points. It’s insane. They used to hide it with gaslighting and innuendo, now they have millions saying it all out loud.

If you don’t think this is serious and cant go south very easily, I got a book for you.

History doesn’t repeat, it rhymes.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

I grew up around these assholes, going to punk shows all my life.

I’m sure while you were pounding a flammable cross into the new Black family’s lawn at the punk show, your compatriots said “Chattel slavery was evil and it was messed up how involved the United States was in the Atlantic slave trade. They say we fought the Civil War over it but there are some facts that don’t quite fit. I’m thinking maybe it is just something we say to see ourselves as good people.”

Then later when you’re in your polo shirt and marching with lit tiki torches to the punk show, your compadre stops chanting about who won’t replace him to say “A Presidential candidate at a campaign event isn’t going to educate anyone on a complex issue like the US Civil War and really shouldn’t venture into the minefield even if she is a person of color and has bonafides such as removing the Confederate flag from the state capitol building.”

That sounds totally plausible.

 

[Sardines]

I’m sure while you were pounding a flammable cross into the new Black family’s lawn at the punk show, your compatriots said “Chattel slavery was evil and it was messed up how involved the United States was in the Atlantic slave trade. They say we fought the Civil War over it but there are some facts that don’t quite fit. I’m thinking maybe it is just something we say to see ourselves as good people.”

Then later when you’re in your polo shirt and marching with lit tiki torches to the punk show, your compadre stops chanting about who won’t replace him to say “A Presidential candidate at a campaign event isn’t going to educate anyone on a complex issue like the US Civil War and really shouldn’t venture into the minefield even if she is a person of color and has bonafides such as removing the Confederate flag from the state capitol building.”

That sounds totally plausible.

I have the feeling you missed the point?

 

[One Brow]

The gigantic problem with these types of arguments is that it ignores, and by necessity it has to ignore, the single biggest piece of evidence. When the Civil War started it was NOT between the Union and all slave holding states. A number of slave holding states fought on the side of the Union. The Civil War was between the anti-secession and the secession states. The primary issue was secession

What was the primary reason for secession? This is like saying cancer doesn't kill anyone.